Homeopathy

[Guest pandas16]

For those who haven't tried homeopathy... why not? Do you not believe in it?

[SSS]

I know homeopathy has worked out beautifully for Stephanie, and I am truly thrilled for her.

 

A little over a year ago, classical homeopathy was sweeping through the bio-medical side of things.

I picked up 3 different books about it, by the Ullmans, by Fontaine, and I DID believe it. (Classical. The other method, 'like with like' where you actually put in water downed engergized versions of the bacteria and such into the body, no, I can not do- for example, if you asked me now to use a rememdy that had a version of bartonella in it, I would say:

NO WAY am I putting that in my daughter.)

 

I took my daughter to a well-known classical homeopath, the gentleman who was in the book:

'Impossible Cure' by Amy Lansky.

He picked a remedy that was by all accounts, really spot on.

It did not work. In fact, it made things worse. We spent 4 weeks changing the dose around, trying to figure it out.

I then tried another excellent homeopath, a woman who had trained under Tinus Smits before he passed away, she was so helpful,

but, we tried 2 different remedies, and again, we were regressing.

I spent about 2 1/2 months really trying it, spent about $2k, and it did not work.

 

I would now use homeopathic remedies only if our Dr. recommends it for detox/drainage purposes from here out, and I will carefully look at the product, but, no, it did not work for us. Do I believe it? I am not sure. I have seen a few families (like Stephanie, and another woman from the autism community) where they hit the magic potion, and it changed their lives.

But I also see families keep playing around with it, maybe getting some improvement, then is doesn't last, they try something else, on and on.

Edited August 31, 2011 by S & S

[SSS]

It is my understanding (and both homeopaths agreed what we were doing was not working) that there should not be long term regression- maybe just a day or two? And I don't think even that, it should be just 'better'?

At any rate, both agreed it was not working for us- they wanted to go on and keep trying different remedies, but I did not have the patience for it, and, we were seeing new issues;

whereas she had been able to sleep in her own bed through the night, she started having to sleep only by my side in my bed, crying more, other things.

This is just my experience.

[MichaelTampa]

I have used classical homeopathy a couple times over the last couple years, each time for 2-3 months. Each time I feel the remedy was substantially helpful, although nothing close to change-your-life helpful, or no-longer-need-all-the-other-crazy-treatments helpful. Each time I feel the remedy ran its course and did for me what it was going to do. I do plan to get back to that in another couple/few months, but have too many other situations/treatments going on that it seems the wrong time for it.

 

I remember I did get a headache for a couple days starting out with the first treatment, which the homeopath had warned me that or other things could easily happen in terms of things getting worse. The second time, gosh, if there was any worsening, I do not remember it now. I think both homeopaths told me that is the type of thing that can happen, it doesn't have to happen, but it does a good bit of the time. I don't think they would expect it to be for weeks/months, which doesn't mean it isn't the getting worse before getting better, but at some point it's tough to assume that.

 

I think particularly with infection related issues and the immune system, we reach a point that you can only ask so much of classical homeopathy. Perhaps it can get the body reacting more properly to substances and to infections inside our body, whatever "properly" might mean. But what if by the time we get started, the body is so weak and the substance is so toxic at such large quantities, or the infection is so strong and in control? It just seems at some point, you are only going to get so much out of it. Perhaps that is what happened with S&S--maybe the remedy was "right" and got the body doing what it should, but the body was not up for that kind of fight and upheavel. If we are detoxing perhaps you can push and suffer through, and come out better in the end, maybe, if the damage done by pushing through is not too great or too permanent. If we are fighting a real infection, I believe at some point it just won't be enough to win that fight, but perhaps in some cases can help win the fight.

 

I do wonder about treating people with classical homeopathy when their condition we are trying to treat has changed their makeup/personality so much, and I am talking here about things like anxiety and OCD and sensitivities/allergies. I have asked about this, and all they do is treat the patient as they are, but as these remedies are intended as permanent changes, it is an interesting question if that is really a good idea in some cases, as there is a real question as to what the true personality even is behind all of the illness.

[Christianmom]

MichaelTampa -- When you tried classical homeopathy, were you off antibiotics and other meds.?

[SSS]

I have used classical homeopathy a couple times over the last couple years, each time for 2-3 months. Each time I feel the remedy was substantially helpful, although nothing close to change-your-life helpful, or no-longer-need-all-the-other-crazy-treatments helpful. Each time I feel the remedy ran its course and did for me what it was going to do. I do plan to get back to that in another couple/few months, but have too many other situations/treatments going on that it seems the wrong time for it.

 

I remember I did get a headache for a couple days starting out with the first treatment, which the homeopath had warned me that or other things could easily happen in terms of things getting worse. The second time, gosh, if there was any worsening, I do not remember it now. I think both homeopaths told me that is the type of thing that can happen, it doesn't have to happen, but it does a good bit of the time. I don't think they would expect it to be for weeks/months, which doesn't mean it isn't the getting worse before getting better, but at some point it's tough to assume that.

 

I think particularly with infection related issues and the immune system, we reach a point that you can only ask so much of classical homeopathy. Perhaps it can get the body reacting more properly to substances and to infections inside our body, whatever "properly" might mean. But what if by the time we get started, the body is so weak and the substance is so toxic at such large quantities, or the infection is so strong and in control? It just seems at some point, you are only going to get so much out of it. Perhaps that is what happened with S&S--maybe the remedy was "right" and got the body doing what it should, but the body was not up for that kind of fight and upheavel. If we are detoxing perhaps you can push and suffer through, and come out better in the end, maybe, if the damage done by pushing through is not too great or too permanent. If we are fighting a real infection, I believe at some point it just won't be enough to win that fight, but perhaps in some cases can help win the fight.

 

I do wonder about treating people with classical homeopathy when their condition we are trying to treat has changed their makeup/personality so much, and I am talking here about things like anxiety and OCD and sensitivities/allergies. I have asked about this, and all they do is treat the patient as they are, but as these remedies are intended as permanent changes, it is an interesting question if that is really a good idea in some cases, as there is a real question as to what the true personality even is behind all of the illness.

 

 

*I thought this was an incredibly insightful post.

And I do think your theory was right for our particular case: that perhaps it didn't work out for us because the body wasn't ready for it, the immune system had too many serious issues, this wasn't the order of our particular path.

It was after our homeopathic experience that I realized her problems were larger than I could try and self treat, and we found a Dr. to start working with-

And very interesting about the true personality thoughts/versues treating the symptoms the illness displays.

[MichaelTampa]

MichaelTampa -- When you tried classical homeopathy, were you off antibiotics and other meds.?

 

 

The first time I did it, I am pretty sure this was before I was on antibiotics. I was probably taking nystatin as the only prescription med, but likely 60-80 supportive supplements to help me function at some minimum level. I needed a lot of support back then!

 

The second time, I was on a combo of 2-3 lyme antibiotics with perhaps 10-15 supplements, along with prescriptions for nystatin and cholestyramine.

 

So, for those that think this can interfere, there was plenty of opportunity for interference. The homeopaths tended to focus on spacing it out with 5 or 10 or 15 minutes from other substances, and didn't seem concerned about the other supplements. (Maybe they thought the other stuff wouldn't affect it, or maybe they just accepted that the other stuff was higher priority, in my view or in reality, who knows.)

[MichaelTampa]

I have to wonder the same thing because other treatments can interfere. If your remedy "did what it was supposed to do" - wouldn't you be 100% well?

 

 

I really don't know what the classical homeopath view is, in terms of what they expect the remedy to do. If they really expect it to return us to complete health, the reaction I was having seemed to indicate it was simply not going to do that, at least under the circumstances (still working in a microwave-polluted environment which would cause my fungal infection to fight me harder, taking other supplements for support, and so on). Is that what you're hearing that they expect their remedies to do? Really, I've never asked them that question or discussed it with them. If they expect it to change some aspect of my constitution, maybe it successfully did that, I am not sure how we would know. I use energetic testing to determine to take things, and noted in both cases that they tested very strong initially and over time tested as no longer useful. I think that is consistent with the view that the homeopaths have going in, that they expect them to do some job and be done with it at some point. What that job is, I guess is the interesting question.

[Stephanie2]

You all know my experience so I won't go into it here, but I will say this. According to Angelica and Pierre, the following will interfere, even as far as cancelling out entirely, with the remedy: antibiotics, antifungals, antivirals (even natural antimicrobials), and any immune-modulating herbs, drugs or treatments. And then there are the things that most of us know will antidote: menthol, coffee, camphor, mint to name a few (I found out the hard way about menthol when I realized it was in my toothpaste for 2 months!). With my youngest son I attempted to combine his remedy with first azith and then augmentin. Neither one was able to clear the strep b/c not only do antibiotics prevent the remedy from working, but the remedy prevents the antibitoics from working as well. On the culture report, his strep showed up as "highly sensitive" to augmentin, yet augementin was not able to clear strep, not even for a day. We ended up with a positive culture 2 days after augementin was over and he had a highly unusual response to it - no response at all in terms of pandas symptoms. That had never happened before.

 

As far as Michael's experience, my own personal homeopath (not my boys) was the same one as Michael's second homeopath. At first she told me all these things would not interfere with my remedy, but in the end I discontinued them and found that they were indeed interfering majorly.

 

Homeopathy is not easy. There are many rules to follow, and at the same time dosing frequency and potency requires an intuitive "skill" that one develops over time. I can easily see why people are timid about giving up the antibiotics and not giving it a fair chance. I can also see why it doesn't work for some, if their homeopath doesn't understand pandas, or if the parent simply can't grasp the dosing aspect of it (or if the correct remedy is not found, of course). The reason it has worked so well for my boys is b/c it was literally our last resort before institutionalization. We were running out of sanity, patience, money. It HAD to work or my children were doomed (and so were we, of course). I made it work...Angelica made it work. I read tons of books, followed several forums of moms doing the same for their children. Spent hours studying the approach, just like I did with biomed and with conventional medicine for pandas.

 

Like I said, I can understand why some would move on. But I have to say that many are willing to give conventional medicine years and years to see if they can make it work, yet only give homeopathy a couple months. I'm not saying that it will take years and years for homeopathy, but in my case my youngest child was not an overnight responder, but that was partly due to the fact that I was not quite ready to give up the abx, and even when I did I did not follow my homeopath's instructions. My oldest was an overnight responder, but even with him I continually have to adjust dose, potency, frequency.

 

I am so not trying to sound condescending here. Like I said, I HAD to make this work, literally "life and death" in my book, as all other treatment options were taken off the table. It was not easy, it is still not easy but my boys have a life now and so do I. I just wanted to clarify some of this for anyone else in the future who may come across this thread. It's ashame that there are not more homeopathy moms on here with pandas kids. There are loads of them out there having tremendous success, they are just on other forums.

[SSS]

You all know my experience so I won't go into it here, but I will say this. According to Angelica and Pierre, the following will interfere, even as far as cancelling out entirely, with the remedy: antibiotics, antifungals, antivirals (even natural antimicrobials), and any immune-modulating herbs, drugs or treatments. And then there are the things that most of us know will antidote: menthol, coffee, camphor, mint to name a few (I found out the hard way about menthol when I realized it was in my toothpaste for 2 months!). With my youngest son I attempted to combine his remedy with first azith and then augmentin. Neither one was able to clear the strep b/c not only do antibiotics prevent the remedy from working, but the remedy prevents the antibitoics from working as well. On the culture report, his strep showed up as "highly sensitive" to augmentin, yet augementin was not able to clear strep, not even for a day. We ended up with a positive culture 2 days after augementin was over and he had a highly unusual response to it - no response at all in terms of pandas symptoms. That had never happened before.

 

As far as Michael's experience, my own personal homeopath (not my boys) was the same one as Michael's second homeopath. At first she told me all these things would not interfere with my remedy, but in the end I discontinued them and found that they were indeed interfering majorly.

 

Homeopathy is not easy. There are many rules to follow, and at the same time dosing frequency and potency requires an intuitive "skill" that one develops over time. I can easily see why people are timid about giving up the antibiotics and not giving it a fair chance. I can also see why it doesn't work for some, if their homeopath doesn't understand pandas, or if the parent simply can't grasp the dosing aspect of it (or if the correct remedy is not found, of course). The reason it has worked so well for my boys is b/c it was literally our last resort before institutionalization. We were running out of sanity, patience, money. It HAD to work or my children were doomed (and so were we, of course). I made it work...Angelica made it work. I read tons of books, followed several forums of moms doing the same for their children. Spent hours studying the approach, just like I did with biomed and with conventional medicine for pandas.

 

Like I said, I can understand why some would move on. But I have to say that many are willing to give conventional medicine years and years to see if they can make it work, yet only give homeopathy a couple months. I'm not saying that it will take years and years for homeopathy, but in my case my youngest child was not an overnight responder, but that was partly due to the fact that I was not quite ready to give up the abx, and even when I did I did not follow my homeopath's instructions. My oldest was an overnight responder, but even with him I continually have to adjust dose, potency, frequency.

 

I am so not trying to sound condescending here. Like I said, I HAD to make this work, literally "life and death" in my book, as all other treatment options were taken off the table. It was not easy, it is still not easy but my boys have a life now and so do I. I just wanted to clarify some of this for anyone else in the future who may come across this thread. It's ashame that there are not more homeopathy moms on here with pandas kids. There are loads of them out there having tremendous success, they are just on other forums.

 

 

I LOVE your story Stephanie, I really do-

Just curious,

have you heard of any success with classical homeopathy with healing Lyme diesease? Truly erradicating it, with no relapse?

With constitutional homepathy?

P.S.

I'm not considering this path for us, we are at where I believe we are suppose to be, but I haven't heard anything about it 'curing' Lyme...it such a tricky *&^%**

Edited September 1, 2011 by S & S

[Stephanie2]

You all know my experience so I won't go into it here, but I will say this. According to Angelica and Pierre, the following will interfere, even as far as cancelling out entirely, with the remedy: antibiotics, antifungals, antivirals (even natural antimicrobials), and any immune-modulating herbs, drugs or treatments. And then there are the things that most of us know will antidote: menthol, coffee, camphor, mint to name a few (I found out the hard way about menthol when I realized it was in my toothpaste for 2 months!). With my youngest son I attempted to combine his remedy with first azith and then augmentin. Neither one was able to clear the strep b/c not only do antibiotics prevent the remedy from working, but the remedy prevents the antibitoics from working as well. On the culture report, his strep showed up as "highly sensitive" to augmentin, yet augementin was not able to clear strep, not even for a day. We ended up with a positive culture 2 days after augementin was over and he had a highly unusual response to it - no response at all in terms of pandas symptoms. That had never happened before.

 

As far as Michael's experience, my own personal homeopath (not my boys) was the same one as Michael's second homeopath. At first she told me all these things would not interfere with my remedy, but in the end I discontinued them and found that they were indeed interfering majorly.

 

Homeopathy is not easy. There are many rules to follow, and at the same time dosing frequency and potency requires an intuitive "skill" that one develops over time. I can easily see why people are timid about giving up the antibiotics and not giving it a fair chance. I can also see why it doesn't work for some, if their homeopath doesn't understand pandas, or if the parent simply can't grasp the dosing aspect of it (or if the correct remedy is not found, of course). The reason it has worked so well for my boys is b/c it was literally our last resort before institutionalization. We were running out of sanity, patience, money. It HAD to work or my children were doomed (and so were we, of course). I made it work...Angelica made it work. I read tons of books, followed several forums of moms doing the same for their children. Spent hours studying the approach, just like I did with biomed and with conventional medicine for pandas.

 

Like I said, I can understand why some would move on. But I have to say that many are willing to give conventional medicine years and years to see if they can make it work, yet only give homeopathy a couple months. I'm not saying that it will take years and years for homeopathy, but in my case my youngest child was not an overnight responder, but that was partly due to the fact that I was not quite ready to give up the abx, and even when I did I did not follow my homeopath's instructions. My oldest was an overnight responder, but even with him I continually have to adjust dose, potency, frequency.

 

I am so not trying to sound condescending here. Like I said, I HAD to make this work, literally "life and death" in my book, as all other treatment options were taken off the table. It was not easy, it is still not easy but my boys have a life now and so do I. I just wanted to clarify some of this for anyone else in the future who may come across this thread. It's ashame that there are not more homeopathy moms on here with pandas kids. There are loads of them out there having tremendous success, they are just on other forums.

 

 

I LOVE your story Stephanie, I really do-

Just curious,

have you heard of any success with classical homeopathy with healing Lyme diesease? Truly erradicating it, with no relapse?

With constitutional homepathy?

P.S.

I'm not considering this path for us, we are at where I believe we are suppose to be, but I haven't heard anything about it 'curing' Lyme...it such a tricky *&^%**

 

I have one friend who's son had documented lyme (igenex lit up like christmas tree) and her son is fully recovered from autism/pandas with homeoapthy. There is a school of thought that believes that 90% of autism cases are lyme induced, and many who seek out homeopathy get some level of efficacy from it, so I have to believe that it works for lyme (in fact, it would take me all day to explain why, but I honestly think that lyme is one of the major reasons why homeopathy works so well, it allows the immune system to "rise up" in a way that can allow the body to overcome, or live symbiotically with, lyme).

[Stephanie2]

@ Stephanie 2- but probiotics are immune modulating but the remedy still works for your son?

 

Oh yes! The remedy still works with probiotics, no doubt! When my boys started their remedies they were on 800 billion cfu's and 1 trillion cfu's (for those not familiar with probitoics, this is a MASSIVE dose of probiotics which costed us $450 per month to maintain), PLUS they were on two capsules per day of culturelle. The remedy brought both of my boys from a state of psychotic, violent rage to calm (one of them overnight, literally, overnigth) while they were on this amount. But keep in mind that with homepathy, the goal is not simply to "manage" pandas but to overhaul the immune system permanently. Correct the autoimmune response, cure the child. Right now, I can see in some areas we are "cured" (sound sensitivity for example) and some areas which are still being "managed" (symptoms come back when they are due for a dose of their remedy).

 

As far as massive amounts of probiotics, it is MY opinion that they do interfere with the remedy's ability to "get" to the chronic gut infections that were/are residing in my sons' guts. Angelica does not agree with me and feels that probiotics are a natural supplement that only helps the remedy. It has been my experience that my boys do about the same or better without the probiotics, actually. I dose them if I think a stomach bug is in the house, but that is about it. (although theyare still taking one capsule of culturelle each, which is only 10 billion cfu's...a drop in the bucket compared to the numbers they used to be on). The weaning process, by the way, was not easy. Each time I reduced my 6yo's probiotics he would get a major gut flare (clostridia, yeast, klebsiella) and I would then give an extra dose of his remedy and it would clear it. It took me about 4 months to wean him off b/c I was always so hesitant to deal with the gut issues. It is almost like ripping off a bandaid and allowing the remedy access to it. The "ripping off" part is painful!

 

You may be right that probiotics are immune-modulating but maybe not to the extent, or in the same way, that say IVIG or LDN are (or even Larix, an herb similar to echinacea). I think they mimic the body's own immune-modulating activity, but that is just my opinion. I, personally, don't think that anythign can mimic the variety of strains within the gut-flora that we were born with (or were supposed to be born with). Each strain has a different function within the body, definitley affecting the immune system. The question I have for my own boys is whether or not homeopathy can stimulate their bodies to resurrect those strains that have been killed off with all the years of abx. I hope so, but I am prepared for that to not happen, simply b/c I have to wonder if some of them were left at all to multiply. Will they always be dependant upon their remedies for gut health (and would that be "pseudo" gut health?)? Like I said, in 6 months I will know more.

 

There is a new movement within the autism community to perform "fecal transplants" for children whose guts have been severely compromised. The idea behind this is to literally "transplant" the healthy gut flora of another individual into your child's gut so that he can then maintain it. This is not something I really care to do for my boys, but in the end I feel lead to this extreme, I will look into it.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Stephanie2

[SSS]

I LOVE your story Stephanie, I really do-

Just curious,

have you heard of any success with classical homeopathy with healing Lyme diesease? Truly erradicating it, with no relapse?

With constitutional homepathy?

P.S.

I'm not considering this path for us, we are at where I believe we are suppose to be, but I haven't heard anything about it 'curing' Lyme...it such a tricky *&^%**

 

I have one friend who's son had documented lyme (igenex lit up like christmas tree) and her son is fully recovered from autism/pandas with homeoapthy. There is a school of thought that believes that 90% of autism cases are lyme induced, and many who seek out homeopathy get some level of efficacy from it, so I have to believe that it works for lyme (in fact, it would take me all day to explain why, but I honestly think that lyme is one of the major reasons why homeopathy works so well, it allows the immune system to "rise up" in a way that can allow the body to overcome, or live symbiotically with, lyme).

 

 

 

**Thank you --I understand what you are are saying.

I am really sorry if I came off wrong here on the this thread- I recently found out I'm not so well myself, and I'm starting to question how I react/come off with things- please know I have always respected you very much, and admire you- you have worked so hard in the trenches. Your boys are very lucky to have you-

Edited September 2, 2011 by S & S

[Stephanie2]

No no no! You didn't come across wrong at all! I just want to make sure people really understand the complexity behind homeopathy! I wish I could say it is easy, I really do. I mean in some ways it is b/c overnight I could see that my boys were no longer headed for the psych unit anymore, but that was just the beginning. I just want people to understand that it takes a lot of research, perseverence and maybe even several homeopaths. It's not much different than the conventional approach to pandas in that sense. Nothing is going to be handed to us moms, unfortunately. I had just as hard an August with strep as the next mom, the difference may be that I was able to manage it without abx, steroids, etc., and the healing was faster and more complete than any other approach I have taken with strep. But believe me, there were still days I was cursing pandas from here to the moon! LOL!

 

You, also, have persevered in so many ways for your daughter and I respect YOU for that! Please don't feel bad for giving your experience. Honestly, I would rather people go into it knowing that it may not work, or that it is going to be really hard possibly, or that the first remedy, or the first homeopath may not be the ticket. People need to know what they are getting into no matter what the approach!

[Stephanie2]

S and S, one more thing. Doesn't your daughter also have autism? It has been my observation that with children who's remedy was chosen based on the autism features, sometimes pandas gets worse (path to healing goes from mental to emotional to physical and then out the body). Pierre and Angelica take the approach of prescribing an "acute" remedy when pandas flares in that situation. Then when pandas is managed the child goes back on the constitutional remedy. For some reason with my boys this has not happened and we have been able to manage pandas mainly with their constitutional remedy (although when strep comes into the house, often times I have to dose it as much as every 20 minutes for a couple hours to nip it in the bud). I have to say that Angelica seems to have really gotten a "handle" on pandas since she started working with it in Jan. She has come a long way in the 6+ months I have been working with her on my boys' cases. She has many more tricks up her sleeves.

 

I'm not trying to talk anyone into seeing Angelica, here, but personally I would not trust my pandas boys to anyone else, maybe not even Pierre!