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Loose teeth and their impact on PANDAS?


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We have suspected for some time that our non-PANDAS 5 1/2 year old daughter may actually have a very mild case. She is somewhat asymptomatic for strep (half of the time she's tested positive we had not warning signs of her being sick - we were testing her because of her brother). We noticed when she does have strep, however, she is very hypersenstive (cries over everything and nothing), seperation anxiety kicks in, seems to need extra reassurance (needs you to give her lots of hugs and odd and inappropriate times to make sure you still love her). We have wondered for some time if we're just imagining it, because we're so sensitive to our son's changes, and even susptected the possibility of her doing these things for the extra attention becasuse when her brother has strep, natrually our focus gets a tad more one sided (even though we try not to!) and unfortunately most of her infections have coincided with his.

 

We haven't focused too much on it with our doctors because she has always bounced back to normal with a course of abx. Since our pediatrician has no problems with letting us come in for throat cultures at the signs of weird behavior and he'll prescribe abx (in 90 day doses for my son), we've been able to catch some of her issues this way. She in no way loses functioning like our son does.

 

She got strep again a couple of weeks ago - and we're now fairly certain we are dealing with PANDAS. I've been home with them 2 days a week this summer, and her behavior since this infection has been totally out of hand. She's normally a very well-behaved kid, loves helping around the house, very rarely does she disobey - biggest issue has always been sharing with her brother. With this infection, total definace daily, screaming attitude, talking back, she's even wet the bed once - never an issue we've had with her. She improved on the abx, and we even had her in the pediatrician last week for a re-check because her attitude, hypersensitivity and definace are still pretty significant. No strep.

 

She does, however, have her first loose tooth. It's just started to get wiggly, and it'll probably be weeks before it comes out. I know others have seen an increase in symptoms when teeth fall out and with dental work (we haven't seen that with either so far). In youre experience, does the increase start with the loose tooth, or actually when it falls out?

 

Just wondering - as it may explain some things going on in our house lately!

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In youre experience, does the increase start with the loose tooth, or actually when it falls out?

 

Just wondering - as it may explain some things going on in our house lately!

 

In our experience, DS7 (PANDAS, Lyme, Bartonella) has an extreme exacerbation with loose teeth, new teeth coming in, or dental work. By extreme I mean raging, defiance, aggression, etc. He had a cavity filled and shrieked repetitively for hours until he lost his voice (and I lost my mind). After that he ran a fever. With a loose tooth, the symptoms start for no apparent reason, then he starts complaining about a loose tooth later on and we go "Aha!". The flare stops very soon after the tooth finally falls out.

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Ditto Momaine. My DD, who like your daughter, is far less symptomatic than older brother, ramps up once a tooth starts moving. Even tho she's on daily abx (her C3a and C3d immune complexes show she's fighting something, but we're not sure what - it's not strep, maybe lyme, maybe H Pylori) - she spikes in the weeks prior to the tooth falling out. Motrin on a regular 6 hr schedule helps (it's much better than using as-needed, as once things escalate, it's hard to get the horse back in the barn). Our DDS also gives us Peridex - an anti-bacterial rinse used for post-root canals. A day or two after the tooth is lost and the gum closes back up, issues dissipate.

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We have had the same issues as the others. Two girls, both have minor flares with loose teeth. Usually increased emotional lability- not much ocd. It usually gets better a day or two after tooth pops out. One time older dd lost 4 teeth (molars) in a month, and we did a steroid burst because she couldn't get out of the flare up.

 

Now if they have a cranky day- I ask about a loose tooth :) If they do have a loose tooth- I tell them to wiggle it a lot, and try to give advil until it comes out (however I am not a fan of more than 5 days of advil).

 

The flares have been on the minor side, and they have rebounded- which is the good news. I am hoping my older is almost done losing teeth? Younger has quite a ways to go....

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My DS7 has had a very up and down summer in regards to PANDAS symptoms. I haven't been able to put my finger on it until just the other day. It's his teeth. He has lost 3 of them over the last 2 months. He just lost one a few days ago and already seems better. It's driving me crazy because I feel like we're just getting our heads into this PANDAS/Lyme mess, and then something like a wiggly tooth can cause a flare :( Most of the time I am just not really sure how to know what is causing what....it's driving me crazy. But....now hopefully we'll have a break from teeth, and let things get back to normal for a bit.

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PS- Arial- my younger came down with incapacitating pandas. In hindsight, at the same time, her older sister did as well. BUT since younger was so bad, and older was functional- we missed it for a while. Then we realized it an treated her, those mild issues went away. She did eventually have an incapacitating onset :( So I think it is totally possible to have a mild onset.... I am a BIG believer that aggressive treatment helps for each episode.....

 

Sorry beyond words about your daughter. The ONLY silver lining I can see about having two (and I would not wish it on anyone)- is that they now (and in the future) have a built in support group, and don't have to feel so alone....

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Thanks so much!! This helps alot. This was the first time she hasn't bounced right back to 100% after abx treatment of the infection. (Unlike my son, she doesn't react to exposure - just the actual infection.) As of yesterday, we have a 2nd tooth loose!

 

At least now that we know we're dealing with it because of the loose teeth, we can manage it better. I dosed her with ibuprofen yesterday morning when she got up, and she had a good morning. She got a little edgy again towards late afternoon/dinner - and had a complete emotional breakdown at bedtime. We didn't give her a second dose of ibuprofen, we wanted to see if there was a profound difference - and BOY was there!!

 

It helps to know that I'm not crazy. She was very emotional at camp drop off this morning, needing more hugs, tears, got upset because she didn't get to hug her brother goodbye (she hardly gives him a second look most normal mornings!)

 

Thanks so much!!!

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Glad you feel like you know what's behind the change. If you end up regular dosing with ibuprofen for a period of time, you may want to read up on using milk thistle. It's a good liver detox and would help protect the liver from a steady dose of ibuprofen. You can PM me for some links or search on the lyme forum for milk thistle threads. Hope the tooth comes out soon!

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Thanks for the tip - we've tried not to regular dose ibuprofen with my son (who is our critical case). We try to use his therapy tools and his "special chair" as opposed to the motrin. We try to keep that tool for occasions when we have to go out (family functions, church, day care) and only as a worst case. It's worked well for us.

 

We dosed her yesterday as our own sort of diagnostic test to see what we were dealing with. But I'll keep that in mind if we start a regular dosing for her.

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