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My DD6 started with her PANDAS symptoms in early March, after having strep twice (confirmed cultures). Our ped. was able to diagnose it right away. Her symptoms are all rage/ocd.

 

She has been on 4 rounds of abx. since then.

 

It goes like this...rages/ocd are bad, goes on abx....within 3/4 days on abx. the symptoms subside, and are gone by the end of abx. Then, as soon as shes off they start to ramp up again slowly. Starts withing 24/48hrs off of abx. When it gets bad (usually about 2 weeks later), she's on abx again.

Her ped. was thinking maybe it wasn't cleared, so tried a few kinds.

She has been on the 4 rounds I mentioned, 10 days for each one. Ammox 1st, Keflex, Clindamycin, last was Augmentin.

 

My ped. is thinking maybe she has some yeast issues.....due to the rages? How do I know what is causing what.

I would think that since the symptoms disappear while on abx, that it's the PANDAS causing the rages...not really yeast.

But thought that since she has been on so many abx. that maybe some yeast treatments might be worth at try.

 

She has no other yeast symptoms that I know of. We were doing florastor while on abx. and now back to our old probiotics.

Ped. suggested Diflucan?

 

Thanks!

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I'm not sure, either, how you could definitively separate yeast-related behaviors from PANDAS behaviors, but, just logically, I'd tend to see it your way: if those rages and OCD behaviors evaporate when she's on abx, then it seems unlikely that they are 100% attributable to yeast. If anything, if the yeast were a primary (as opposed to secondary) concern, you'd think the negative behaviors would increase when on abx because the yeast has more of an opportunity to profligate then, right?

 

FWIW, too, we saw the same pattern with our DS, especially early on in abx treatment. OCD and anxiety (his only rages at the time were fairly internal, as opposed to external) would decrease substantially when on abx; we'd quit or cut back, and by Day 8 or 9, we'd see the behaviors start to creep back up in frequency and intensity. If we didn't return to abx, by Day 12 or 14, he'd practically be back where he started! And all of this continued to re-occur each and every time we tried to reduce or remove the abx, even when we couldn't find any sign that he'd been exposed to or was suffering from any bacterial or viral component. He's generally hyper-immune anyway, though, so he frequently doesn't "actively catch" things but will rather "carry" them and give them to the rest of the family, or react to them behaviorally rather than physically.

 

In our case, keeping him on abx has been key, but we've also had to supplement with other interventions: therapy, low-dose SSRI, supplements, low-dose mood stabilizer, etc. to really keep him on an improvement trajectory. He takes a fair amount of probiotics, also.

 

I've taken Diflucan in the past, and the down side to that is it can be hard on the liver. I know other families here have used it, though, so it might be worth a short trial. But will the doc test for candida or some other "negative yeast" before actually prescribing? At any rate, if you don't see improvement in the behaviors reasonably soon after starting it, you'll probably have your answer.

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I am currently having a really hard time right now too, with these two issues.

But just from reading your post, it sounds like you need to consistantly stay on the antibiotics.

My dd has had yeast issues before we started antibx. so this fear/hate of yeast is always there for me.

She recently lost a tooth, and right now we are in a major flair. OCD ramped all the way up, hyper, aggressive, vocal tics. (I don't know if our flair is from losing the tooth, although could be possible, this pandas thing is such a strange bird to me sometimes.)

*sigh* I do give good quality probitoics all the time, away from the antibiotics (do you? this helps.)

But yeast here generally looks like: Demanding carbohydrate foods. Hungry all the time. Wants the 'junk' food. All the time. Weepiness easily.

But, some yeast and pandas can look like each other.

So, right now I'm as confused as you ;-)

But, things are really tough right now- I just called our compounding pharmacy for a refill of Diflucan, am back to full dose Azithromycin, and giving ibuprofen, and praying we pull out (soon?)

Also, dosing my probiotics.

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I'm actually holding off on getting our Diflucan, but it's always nice (for me) to know it's there-

just after I posted earlier, I think I am starting to see my dd6 pull out---gave 400 mg Azith. last night, ibuprofen today, and she is now willing to eat the protein meals/snacks that I provide her, and has been very calm this afternoon.

But anyway, one of the biggest clues here for yeast overgrowth is her food demands- going for the carbs/sugar (although I don't keep sugary stuff here, really, because of our yeast issue, and try to always go for protein throughout the day)

white coating on tounge

red ring around anus

goes to weepy

standing on head

climbing like crazy

Just a few thoughts.

But if you haven't been giving probiotics with all the antibiotics you've been doing, you may very well have created yeast overgrowth.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just was wondering why DD-9 is always so hungry. Ay-yay-yay...maybe she's now developed yeast infection, as she is ravenously hungry. She started her Zithromax 6/18 and we are now on Penicillin. I know, I know, I should have been giving her probiotics but was so confused on brand and potency. I started last night, with Nature's Way Primadophilus orange flavor chewables, with 3 billion cfu.

 

HOpefully it's not too late to reverse the hunger binge...other than giving the probiotics and continuing her ABX, is there anything else I need to do to address the yeast infection?

 

Thanks, Sheila

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Hi Shiela,

 

Along with the probiotics, the Biomeds say to restrict foods which contain yeast (eg bread) and those foods which feed yeast (sugar) and mold/fungus foods (eg cheese, mushrooms).

Good luck.

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For my dd6, whom yeast is an issue, it is not about restricting the actual 'yeast' product found in breads, but the HIGH carb diet- lots of breads, cereals, (excessive carbs) and the obvious sugary foods- candy, lots of juice drinks, maple syrup, etc.

I try to feed her protein throughout the day, which keeps her satisfied hunger wise- less carbs, although she of course, gets carbs. I try to do this all the time, because for us, yeast comes back, and high carb foods can be empty calories. Not always successful, girl loves her carbs. But I do get protein in throughout the day.

Natural anti-fungals are grapefruit seed extract (drops in a drink, but strong flavored) some other herbs, extra biotin vitamins- or,

You could ask your Dr. for a prescription of Nystatin or Diflucan.

But keep up probiotics- given at least 2 hours away from antibiotics.

HTH.

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"Hi,

Question----Ozimum, when do you "restrict" these foods? When you are, actively, on the antibiotics or when you think you are having a yeast flare up ( craving the carbs, ragey, etc)?"

 

We've restricted these foods anyway as part of a gut healing diet for DS, but for myself whenever I have a flare up, I know I've overdosed on those foods - I'm better if I go "low". (My secret stash of chocolate is NOT a good thing!) It seems we tend to crave the things that do us the least good... And, my family is just a lot healthier for a diet of meat/fish and veggies (GF/CF, low grains, no potatoes, etc.) So for us that means lots of grills/BBQs/stews or casseroles/salads/veggies. I make up big pots of meat stews (with lots of veggies) eg.bolognese and GF pasta, and freeze it in portions for DS17. Whenever the snack attack hits he can help himself and heat it in the microwave - for his breakfast too (!)

Edited by Ozimum
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