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Another great post Kim, truly wonderful. It also was nice to see the DAN doctor we use, Dr. Levinson noted. Dr. Levinson is truly dedicated to the cause. I will most likely go back and read your posts from Bio-chat again. I think it is important for us to remember thru that the studies were all done on kids labed with ASD and our kids may not need as lengthy treatments since the damage is not as severe, even if it does suck.


Caz, I am a big believer in detoxing our kids but there are so many ways to detox. Don't feel pressured to chelate. Chelating with DMPS and DMSA seems to have been great for us but there are others on this site who have had success detoxing thru other means. Do what you feel is best for your child based upon your childs needs. But you knew that already, I just thought you might want to hear someone else say it as well.

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Tuesday July 12, 9:00pm EST

Stephanie Cave, MD

Immunizations and Autism. The substantial benefits of

immunization have been threatened by a public policy

that has mistakenly exempted vaccines from safety

testing that applies to all other FDA approved

pharmaceuticals. Safe, private immunization policy for

your children may be guided by an understanding of the

difference between public and private health

priorities and strategies.


Dr. Cave is on the clinical faculty of LSU Medical

School, has an integrative medicine practice in Baton

Rouge, Louisiana and is board certified in Family

Practice. Presently she is treating over 2000 children

on the autism spectrum. Dr. Cave lectures on autism,

heavy metal toxicity, and vaccines, and is the author

of What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children’s





Wednesday July 13, 9:30pm EST

Richard Deth, PhD

Dr. Richard Deth is a molecular neuropharmacologist

and Professor of Pharmacology at Northeastern

University in Boston. His research interests are

directed toward elucidating the molecular events that

cause neuropsychiatric disorders in which impaired

attention is a prominent feature. His laboratory

discovered a new signaling pathway involving the D4

subtype of dopamine receptor that is linked to the

risk of ADHD, autism, schizophrenia and Alzheimer's






Click on Biomedical Treatments and Support Chatroom

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BioChat notes From Dr. Cave session



Here are the notes to pass. Hilary is such a gem for taking these:

> Stephanie Cave




Hats off to Hilary and may I say ( tip!)


These notes are very informative to the reader, especially if you are

a visual learner.

Thank you for your dedication and contribution.









> Q: Thank you for your time What do you think is a clever


> schedule? I feel that not only thimerosal but also Al compounds,

> formaldehyde, formaline neomycin and the genetic materials of


> species (rabbit dog) are all potentially harmful Do you think that

> only when harder controls of vaccines quality with the single doses

> of MMR and perhapssingle dose of DPT (All with SAFER


> we will have a real improvement in the safety of vaccines, beyond

> efectiveness?


> A: The vaccination schedule is in chapter 15 of the book. We start

> later, don't do varicella/pox until a year. We separate M, M and R.

> At 4 to 5 years, we test before giving Hep B, varicella (depending


> what the rules of state are), and MMR. 95% of time they are already

> immune to MMR.


> Q: Son received tetraimmune vaccine. Could that be a contributing

> factor to his autism? What do you know about it? DPT and Hib


> A: Any amount of thimerosal can be a problem if the child is

> genetically not able to handle heavy metals. Tetraimmune


> Q: I stopped vaccinating my son over a year ago after he reacted

> badly to his last few vaccinations. Is it safe to just keep him

> vaccine free while we are on the road to recovery. A little history

> is that my son went from pretty nt with certain delays to severly

> autistic within 6hours after mmr and dpt booster. and also my son


> A: For a child on the spectrum, I don't recommend any further

> vaccines.


> Q: If one chooses not to continue vaccination after an ADHD dx,


> are the chances that the child will become infected with whatever

> disease it is the vax is to protect them from?


> A: You always run a risk, but many of these diseases are very rare



> Q: Very hyper since flu shot last year


> A: Work with a DAN! doctor. Flu shot has thimerosal. I don't

> recommend flu shot to anyone.


> Q: Would you recommend healing gut or chelation first. Also, In a

> state without philosophical reason to bypass vaccination, how do


> get around it? NJ


> A: work to heal gut, for about a month, then start chelation. Get


> exemption – medical, or religious. Or consider homeschooling.


> Q: Tetraimmune followup. Testing on son shows he is a good


> After a year of TD-DMPS and DMSA, still not excreting a lot, even

> with IV EDTA. Did tetraimmune do damage moreso then the mercury? Do


> need to treat a virus?


> A: There's no way to tell what damage was done by a vaccine. Even

> with testing, the child may not be able to excrete. Also, may not


> mercury, but another heavy metal. Do consider the viral approach,


> we're not having much treating with antivirals.


> Q: What is your opinion of Td-dmps as a chelator? Is there any

> chelator that you prefer?



> A: It's not approved for children. We're not seeing mercury in the

> urine or stool. It might be stuck in skin? Children are improving,

> but we don't know how. We're seeing great results with dmsa, so I

> stick with that.


> Q: Which are the best tests to do that will show if the child has

> heavy metal toxicity? Hair? Urine? Feces? Blood? Do you know a lab

> that you think has the best test/results?


> A: We look at hair. We try to get first haircut hair. If child is


> excreting mercury in 1st haircut hair, they're probably not an

> excretor. We do a challenge to see what can be pulled. We used to

> check stool, not so much any more. Blood only shows mercury there


> a week. Doctors Data is the best lab I've seen.


> Q: What are your indications for using TD-DMSA as opposed to the

> oral form? Also, is it common in your experience that a child may

> test negative for mercury in a challenge test, but still be mercury

> toxic?


> A: If a child has yeast issues, we'd switch to TD (transdermal). A

> child we had today wouldn't put anything sulfury in his mouth, so


> used TD with him. Mercury is pretty tightly bound, so it's hard to

> pull from storage sight.


> Q: Have you used LDN (low dose naltrexone) with children on the

> spectrum? If so, should this be tried before chelation or during

> chelation?


> Q: We just heard that our son has high level of titanium. Can't

> get to the DAN dr. for a month. What causes titanium levels?


> we do anything. Already 4 weeks into first 8 weeks of DMSA after

> urine test showed high mercury.


> A: mom may have had braces, or vitamins with titanium (dioxide)


> Q: Do you not still use ALA with the DMSA? If not, why?


> A: No. A recent article, however, shows the mixture is not

> necessarily pulling metal from the brain, but it does help


> stress. ALA adds more sulphur. Two sulphur compounds can kick up a

> lot of yeast, beware.


> Q: How would you treat high amounts of measles, mumps or reubella


> the gut. I have started using vaccinosis nosodes and my son reacts

> really badly on them...an emotional mess. Is there anything else


> is more gentle and effective?


> A: I don't necessarily treat this. A colonscopy might be able to


> if this is a problem. I've used some homeopathic nosodes, they seem

> to work ok.


> Q: How long after beginning chelation do you recommend retesting to

> determine how much metals you are pulling....specifically hair

> elements test. We currently are using oral DMSA. He met all 3

> counting rules according to Andy Cutler (DDI)


> A: I do a DMSA challenge first, 20 mg/kg, then ½ that dose 3



> day 3 days on 11 days off for 4 cycles, then another challenge.

> (Collect urine)


> Q: Dr. Cave, we did a pre-chelation OAT for our son and found high

> arabinose (the yeast is back). Given that the TD-DMSA isn't


> through the gut, would you find anything wrong with treating the

> yeast with diflucan (1.5 ml daily) at the same time as starting TD-

> DMSA? Our son is 6, 48 lbs; would those 2 at the same time be too

> hard on him? Also, the OAT said our son tested high for a bacterial

> called D-Lactate? Do you know what that is and what might cause it


> be elevated?


> A: I prefer to treat separately so I can see what the reaction to

> diflucan is (in other words stop the DMSA).


> Q: Our appt w/our DAN! physician isn't until October and I have

> started my 4 yr old on NuThera, Cod Liver Oil, Calcium Powder and


> Bio Gold. We haven't had any testing done on him. I have other

> nutritional supplements that I want to start him on, such as

> selenium, magnesium, GLA, Vit C. Do I need to wait to add more

> supplements (he seems to be responding well to the supps - he's

> ADHD)? How do you decide what supps to start a child on? I


> be surprised if he has yeast issues as he had 30 ABx by the time he

> was 2 (oral, ear, eye abx). Is this something my "reg" ped can


> me with?


> A: You have a good start. We start similarly, then we test minerals

> to see if selenium or magnesium are needed. Also fatty acid and


> acid test. Tune to the tests.


> Q: I've asked this of other Dr.'s on this forum, but what has been

> your experience with recovery rates for older kids? I started

> chelating with oral DMSA my now 8yo mild-moderately autistic son

> about 15 months ago. He is making slow progress.


> A: No cutoff for age, it's faster with younger.


> Q: what is the protocol for trans dmsa and how does it compare with

> dmsa

> A: DMSA TD – we're using ½ the oral dose. But we challenge




> Q: What would you do for 3 yr. child autism with seizers. He is


> meds and cannot take a probiotics or will get a destended stomach

> which will go to a fever siezure. We are at a loss of what to do.

> He is on miralax for sever constipation also.


> A: Children with seizures are a lot more difficult to take care of.

> We start nutrients from ground up. We use DMSA. The mercury may


> up the seizures, so have to work with neurologist. One child had


> seizures initially on the DMSA, but 8 weeks later was seizure-free.


> Q: thanks dr.cave, is td-dmsa equally effective as oral-dmsa?


> A: we're just starting out, yet to be determined.


> Q: Hi Dr.Cave. We have just started our 2 yr, 9 mos old son on

> naltrexone. He is non-verbal but very noisy and jargons tons. We

> are looking for language obviously. Can you tell me anything about

> this treatment?



> A: We're just beginning to try LDN. It's not a toxic dose. Might be

> helping as an antagonist to the morphine. If you want language look

> at MB-12. That has been one of the keys for language.


> Q: After chelating for years with oral DMSA, DMPS, and TD DMPS, the

> metal levels are down. What would the next step be? Also, do you

> use Primal Defense and how much. Thanks SO MUCH!


> A: Next step is wait a few months. Challenge again with oral DMSA.

> Sometimes you can pull more from stores if you wait a while. Also


> NAC to help with detox. Primal Defense – about ½ tsp twice a


> By the way, EDTA as a chelator…we use for lead, cadmium,

aluminum –

> it's not good for mercury.


> Q: Is there a specific test and lab you use to test for the


> and fatty acids? Thanks!


> A: Metamatrix does these tests, results are good, consistent


> Q: Krill OIl is very popular right now. If you had a child on

> Cod Liver Oil and you wanted to add Krill Oil would that be too


> Should you stop the Cod Liver Oil?



> A: I'd continue to use CLO for vit A and D. I'm not familiar with

> Krill.


> Q: Are you familiar with the product called "Beyond Clean" it's

> an EDTA bath, we were advised to mix it with epsom salt. Is it okay

> to use while prepping gut for chelation?



> A: I do use Beyond Clean, it's an EDTA bath, will help with lead.


> to use with Epson salt


> Q: Are you using MSM with your kids ? We are chelating with DMPS-td

> and ALA td



> A: We use mag sulfate cream, and Epsom salt


> Q: I'm considering chelation my 3 yr old son who has pddnos. I'm

> having much trouble getting him to take supplements as he is so

> orally sensitive, he gags at any form of oral meds or strong


> liquid supplements. What would be your recommendation to help


> supplementation (what kinds of supplements are necessary for safe

> chelation) and what would be a safe place to start for chelating my

> son?

> Also, I had his hair and urine heavy metals testing done and they

> didn't show any mercury, however, they did show antimony, bismuth,

> arsenic, and gallium. Since mercury didn't show up on the test,


> are the chances he is or is not mercury toxic?


> A: Check with compounding pharmacist to make up vitamins in an oral

> spray; or creams. A multi, zinc, magnesium, calcium, all necessary.

> If no merc in hair, they might be a retainer (non-excretor) –


> ahead and do the challenge, see if metals come out.


> Q: We do have our son on MB12 shots for about 7 mos. now. How long

> after starting the shots until we see their maximum effect?


> A: We don't know when we'll see a maximum effect. With some kids we

> don't know when we'll see an effect at all. Give them until you


> seeing the child improve. If child has MTFHR issue, need to keep

> doing shots indefinitely.

> Q: I came on late today, sorry if this was already addressed. My

> sons titer was negative to mumps, ofcourse the regular ped wants


> redo the whole mmr. I thought single mumps shot only. Do you


> it is necessary as he is a boy?


> A: If child is negative to mumps only, you would only give mumps,


> full MMR. But if child is ASD, I wouldn't give any further vaxes of

> any kind.


> Q:

> What is the best way to do EDTA? And can you use with TD-

> DMSA ?


> A: Best EDTA – calcium EDTA IV. You probably shouldn't use them

> together, separate in time, maybe by a week.


> Q: What are the contraindications for methyl b-12? What side


> do you see?


> A: I don't know about contraindications. As far as side effects,


> kids get hyper for 7-9 days. We just cut back on frequency of


> if still hyper.


> Q: We're planning to start our son on the MB-12 shots soon.


> we are presently giving him VRP's MB-12 sublingual drops and he has

> become hyper and at times aggressive. Would we expect to see the

> same side-effects from the shots?


> A: Try the shots, for a month. There might be something in the


> he cannot tolerate.


> Q: Have you ever used DeTOXamin EDTA suppositories? Our ND

> recommended this for the lead.


> A: Not crazy about using supps for longterm use, anal sphinter


> is delicate.


> Q: Have you seen any negative side effects from TD-DMSA since

> you have been chelating ASD children? if so, have you had to stop

> chelating those kids?


> A: Only using it for 2 months, but haven't heard anything negative.


> Q: My son has a lazy eye. Have you seen this in any other

> kids? Could it be related to autism and/or mercury poisoning? We

> know another ASD child (relative) with the same lazy eye.


> A: Be careful, take to an opthamologist. Because mercury is a

> neurotoxin it could be related. Patch the good eye.


> Q: What do you do for a child that cannot take a probiotic who

> has terrible constipation? 14 days inbetween bowesl


> A: Use mag citrate. Find out if child has bowel blockage. Might


> more strenuous regime to bring stool out. Nystatin will treat



> Q: Are other eye problems such as myopia and astigmatism related to

> mercury poisoning ?


> A: Anything having to do with nerves could be related.


> Q: What "natural chelators" do you recommend, ie FIR sauna,

> Metal Free, NDF+, Vit C, Clay baths, Foot bath, etc.


> A: I love FIR, have one of my own. Like metal free. NDF hasn't done


> lot for us. Vit C is good. Clay baths have volcanic ash, which have

> mercury. Foot bath – depends what's in it.


> Q: Do you have an opinion on Hyperbaric Oxygen therapy? Thanks

> again!


> A: Has been very good. Dr in New Orleans has good outcomes with

> autistic children. This is in terms of healing.


> Q: What have you found best for chronic constipation? We had


> behavior with Miralax (on over a year) and the mag citrate,

> benefiber, probiotics and enzymes have not consistently provided

> relief (he is 4 yo.)


> A: Do an IgG. Use mag citrate, probiotics, enzymes. Also look at

> organisms in stool to balance flora. Treat parasites, yeast,



> Q: How would you chelate a typical child that got all the shots

> but is not autistic? I dont want cancer down the road for him. I

> know mercury is linked to cancer also.


> A: Find out if the child retains metals – first haircut hair



> challenge with DMSA orally. Urine catch before and after the

> challenge. If the child is not a retainer, don't fix what isn't

> broken.

> Q: Dr. Cave what is your best intervention to stimulate language?


> A: MB-12; folic acid; amino acids


> Q: We've tried cod liver oil, methyl B12, amino acids, B complex

> vitamins, DMG and our daughter still has severe articulation


> after 2 years of speech therapy. Any recommendations for something

> we can try?


> A: Hard to say, don't know the individual


> Q: After 8 months of GFCF my son still tests IgG high on Casein

> (Alletess and immunosciences). What could be the cause? Will it


> go down?



> A: Check labels, find out if there is a diet infraction


> Q: Our son developed a rash after starting the DMSA. Is this



> A: metal rash – if bad enough, stop DMSA for a few weeks.


> Q: Do you know of anyone using the product 'Oral Chelation' by

> Extreme Health. It was developed by Dr. Maile Pouls I believe. Do

> you know of any people's experience with this product?


> A: Most of oral work well. EDTA not for mercury


> Q: what do you recommend for hypotonia and dyspraxia?


> A: Get the metals out, that's typical of mercury toxicity


> Q: We've been using magnesium malate for aluminum. How long

> would you expect it to take to pull the aluminum out using this?


> A: Too long. Use something else. There is a question as to whether

> this drags alum in as well as out.


> Q: In your experience, what is the best test for determining levels

> of heavy metal toxicity?


> A: Best - chelation challenge – oral DMSA, DMPS or IV EDTA.


> Q: What is the best intervention to decrease self stimulatory

> behavior?


> A: yeast overgrowth or metals cause stim. Treat the metals and



> Q: What supplements would help with attention and focus?


> A: For attention and focus, I look at amino acids in plasma, and


> what the child needs. GABA helps. Pediacalm has GABA, that helps


> attention and focus. Tyrosine, dopamine, 5-hydroxy trytophin


> Q: Dr Cave, This is regarding the previous question by Karen on

> how best to stimulate language. You mentioned amino acids. Are


> any particular ones and which tests do we need to do to find out?

> Thank You


> A: Metamatrix – custom made amino acid preparation. But you

need to

> add minerals that are down, coenzyme D complex by Thorne. These 3

> help.


> Q: Do you feel that 5HTP and Tyrosine are safe to use to

> increase serotonin levels?


> A: yes, safe


> Q: What causes toe walking? How can you get rid of it?


> A: Toxins, heavy metals, lack of chemistry, lack of magnesium,


> Q: With a mild trunk rash from the FIR sauna would you also advise


> time without the sauna? (metals being stirred?) or it's so slow


> FIR sauna, just continue?


> A: Sauna will bring out toxins through urine, sweat. Wait a week


> continue.


> Q: how long should we wait when liver becomes weak from dmsa

> before continuing chelation? Also, what chelator should used to

> remove mercury from brain once dmsa removes body mercury?


> A: Liver shouldn't be weak from using DMSA. Use glutathione and

> sulfate along with chelation. You cannot remove mercury straight


> the brain. Studies last fall (DMSA, DMPS, ALA) showed the mercury

> wasn't coming straight from the brain. We're hoping if we take from

> the body, eventually it will come from the brain.

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Tonights notes Dr. Deth....At least one TS question, that I didn't ask!


Dr Richard Deth – molecular neuropharmacologist

(note that Dr Deth got pretty technical, I did the best I could to keep up, but don’t shoot the notetaker  )


Q: Dr.Deth, Thank you for being here tonight. I have an 8 year old who has tried many different meds; Adderal, AdderalXR, Ritalin, Concerta, Risperdal, Clonidine, Wellbutrin and Prozac. On all these meds he has developed tics some oral mosstly motor. Seen many different specialists only one says possible tourettes. The tics go away when meds are stopped. Although one has persisted slightly. That one completely stopped shortly after we started the biomed path mainly with the MB-12 shots. From your experience what neurologically is going on with tics?


A: Tics are involuntary, with motor or vocalization. Dysfunction of basil ganglia, dopamine. Methylation seems to be important in those same circuits.


Q: Have a family history of alzheimers. Does that mean my child is predispositioned for autism.


A: The pathology of alzheimers involves elevated homocysteine and copper and aluminum. It’s my opinion there is a close connection between autism and alzheimers. I have heard of folks with alzheimers using similar protocols, like methyl B-12 or glutathional B-12 (precursor), to improve their Alzheimer symptoms.


Q: When would arginine be recommended over creatine supplementation? I am reading the new Pangborn book and is says that a clue for creatine is low tone.


A: The creatine can’t take the load off methylation. Giving the creatine can be a help, but it’s not a big help with methylation. On using arginine instead of creatine, I’m not a clinician, but make sure there is a lab test that indicates a need for the arginine before giving significant doses. Metametrix test can indicate this.


Q: My son is high copper and low zinc. We give zinc and this is not helping the ratio at this point. How do you get the copper down?


A: I really don’t know how to get copper down. Might need to think where it might be coming from, dietary or environmental.


Q: How to get methylation pathway to work best?


A: The most important mechanism for causing the problems we’re seeing are dopamine stimulated methylation. Total dependence on methionine synthase (B12 enzyme), methyl passed to dopamine phospholipids. Fixing the enzyme methionine synthase is number one on the list of things that can help autism. The enzyme is very metal-sensitive, thus effected by thimerosal. Inflammation – activation of microglia – when microglia are activated, which is common in autism, this causes inflammation. Inflammation is the trigger for the methionine synthase enzyme problems, that’s what brings about the MB12 requirement. These kids have a high demand for methyl B12, they have problems with dopamine stimulated methylation.


Q: What is your opinion of GABA, 5-HTP, and/ or L-Theanine as calming agents for kids with autism? My older 10yo son was initially diagnosed with ADHD-he was re-diagnosed with HFA/ Aspergers. We've tried an alphabet soup of prescription meds with mixed results and I'd rather stick with supplements.


A: You son likely has a methylation-related disorder. Have you explored methylation-related interventions such as folinic and mb-12? (answer was son is on folinic acid and oral MB-12) Dr Deth went on to say that most likely the oral MB-12 won’t produce the effects that the shots would.


Q: So in your research,should MB-12, folinic acid, etc. "kick start" the methyl. cycle? What about TMG or DMG?


A: TMG/DMG is controversial. TMG (Betaine) does seem to help the blood level of the methylation-related metabolites, but it might actually be a hindrance to the cognitive benefits that the MB-12 otherwise would bring. Methionine synthase and BHMT (betaine hydroxymethyltransferase) are in competition when you introduce the TMG, it actually makes the body produce more BHMT. In the brain, the BHMT doesn’t help the dopamine stimulated methylation. If you “starve” the BHMT and let the MB-12 work its magic with methylation, that’s what really seems to help the dopamine.


Q: Of what benefit is phosphatidylcholine, DMAE or other cholinergic supplements for attention/focus issues with ADD kids? Do these supplements raise or lower or have anything to do with dopamine levels? We can't give this child methyl b12 as it causes aggression, which is a side effect when you over do the methyl b12.


A: The phosphatidylcholine is recommended by some physicians, it’s not a bad thought. The end product of the dopamine stimulated methylation is to make phospholipids. The brain needs this. The omega 3 fatty acids in the brain are predominant, so it’s important to make sure you give phosphatidylcholine with omega 3’s. Not sure what effect the DMAE would have.


Q: I run a local biomedical group, and it would be nice to find a way to describe the whole messed-up methylation cycle problem in a way that everyday people can understand. Do you know of a way that can describe the whole process without making people's brains not explode in the process?


A: Diagrams and visual images are helpful.


Q: You mentioned glutathione-l-B12 as a precursor to B12. Do you know if this has been used in kids with ASD and can it be beneficial? If so, what forms does it come in?


A: As far as I know it’s not available in the U.S. I was in England when they were using it for alzheimers. He thought it was better then methyl B-12 because it gives rise to the adenisol cobalamin. He had to have it specially made – it’s not very stable. MB-12 is more stable, so that’s the practical way to go.


Q: Thank you, each time I hear/read this stuff it make a little more sense - your talk is helping!

1) Is trouble crossing midline (OT term) an indication of a problem with synchronization in the brain the way that you talked about it in the Boston DAN? If yes, can you talk more about what that means - which cycles are likely not working well?

2) Have you seen the neuroscience tests? What do you think? They measure urine for epinephrine-urine, norepinephrine dopamine etc via urine. What are the limitations of this method of testing those levels? My son's epinephrine is low, norepinephrine-low, dopamine normal, seratonin-low, GABA-high, PEA - normal, Histamine-high. What does that indicate to you as a scientist? (he is already on MB12 + folinic + TTFD + Glutathione cream to good effect))

3) Can you please talk about glutamate and glutamine…


A: 1) Hemispheric cross over between left and right. That does probably have to do with the same synchronization problem that is related to dopamine. There are also issues with mylin, and connections (hard-wiring). 2) Dopamine is made into norepinephrine is made into epinephrine, so low norepinephrine might indicate problems in the enzymes that do that conversion. It would be unlikely that you would undertake separate treatments to treat each of those neurotransmitters, that’s overwhelming. There should be another wave of benefits coming from drugs that are targeted for inflammation – Goldblatt and Boris have been looking into this. They might supplement the methylation. 3) These are needed for making glutathione. Neuronal cells like glutamine in order to make glutathione. Having too much glutamate can cause hyperactivity, so generally speaking supplementation with glutamate or glutamine has a certain risk to it (hyperactivity).


Q: Can chelation cause neuro inflammation? Is there any hope that the methylation process can be repaired after chelation?


A: I’ve not heard that chelation could cause inflammation. It can cause hyperactivity. Metals have been shown to activate the mircroglial cells that are responsible for inflammation. So the chelation might improve inflammation. The methylation process can be repaired and needs to be repaired. Chelation and restoration of methionine synthase are the therapies we’re pointing towards. Methylation regulates gene expression. Methylation of DNA causes silencing of genes – nature’s own way of turning genes off.


Q: Mutations (??? Not sure of the question, the conference locked up momentarily)


A: Mutations are polymorphisms, they probably wouldn’t create autism without other things like heavy metals. If metal status and redox stress are brought back to normal, the mutations might not be so problematic as to need supplementation. Might try reduced dosage or removal, by working with doctor of course.

Also, we’re looking for alternate delivery mechanisms besides shots for MB-12. Working on nasal spray that would have sustained effect. Nasal has better access to the brain.


Q My son was a responder to Mb12 under the care of Dr. Neubrander. And has done very well .... We are doing the dmps test (urine collection 6 hours) And was wondering till now Chelation is not an option yet i wanted to know what are the dangers chelation poses on the brain? My son is also a leaky gut child. and looks like Dr. Neubrander calls a preagnant Boy. so my second question is if we chelate successfully will his brain be able to function normally in his later years (ex five years or so after therapy).


A: Can do regular challenges to see if there is continued need for chelation. There aren’t long-term effects that I am aware of for metals on the brain, but the clinical tests are showing the heavy metals are coming out. Be cautious; stop the chelation when the indication that it is necessary is gone.


Q: What test checks Glutathione levels? What are the reasons that Methyl B12 is good for autism, adhd, tics, etc. I've heard that dmps iv's are very dangerous. Is oral dmps supposed to be a safer option of chelation? There are several different protocols like DAN or Andy Cutler's. How do you decide which one would be best for tourettes?


A: You can get the glutathione test in hospital labs. Measure cysteine and glutathione. Great Smokies is working on GSH to GSSG ratio test; they have a GSH test.

Benefits of MB-12: fixes dopamine stimulated methylation.

IV is a little brave.

As far as Tourette’s Syndrome, I really don’t know which protocol would work for that.


Q: Would DMG be as bad as TMG in affecting the two enzymes you referred to earlier? My daughter tolerates DMG much better than TMG. Thank you.


A: DMG should be tolerated better – it doesn’t affect the enzymes and interfere with the dopamine mechanism. It’s TMG that could interfere.


Q: You mentioned to avoid DMG if doing Methyl B-12 treatment, are there any other supplements that should be avoided when giving mb-12 or chelation treatment?


A: Actually I was talking about TMG as potentially being a problem with MB-12. If the MB-12 doesn’t seem to be doing anything, try without TMG. DMG however is a good supplement, it contributes to the folate pathway and doesn’t interfere with MB-12. As far as other supplements, introduce them one by one, and give adequate time before starting another supplement. Nothing comes to mind as another supplement that would interfere.


Q: Can you comment on the de-myelination in some autistic kids brains? Can this be reversed?


A: Martha Herbert and another study have shown a complex pattern – lower amounts of white matter early on, later on in teens excessive white matter. De-myelination is common when something inhibits methionine synthase. B-12 definiciency inhibits methionine synthase. Yes, it should be able to be reversed, but we need studies over time.


Q: Two questions. (1) My son started grinding his teeth after he started methyl B12 shots. Is it possible that this is the result of the mouth senses "waking up" due to better methylation? The teeth grinding stopped when I gave B5 (pantothenic acid), and I worried that perhaps I was somehow blocking the effects of B12 by using B5 (thus explaining the cessation of teeth grinding).

(2) I hope this is not off-topic, but have you heard of Dr. McCandless' informal study on LDN (low dose naltrexone)? What are your thoughts about using LDN to reduce inflammation and bring the immune system into balance?


A: 1) There are reports that kids have had the return of different sensations, vision, hearing, etc. I can’t relate this to something specific that the MB-12 should do. You could probably look at the other behavioral effects and judge by that – if you’re seeing good things, keep doing both. 2) I don’t have any lab experience to add to that. I think it’s one of those things that people are anxious to hear about.


Q: Would lipoic acid have any effect on the pathways you've mentioned so far? We're considering its use pulsing with chelation. Thanks again!


A: Lipoic acid has a reputation for being involved in chelation. I don’t have any clinical experience to share. You might consider a variety of chelation agents. One of the problems with chelating agents is their chemical-specificity is different from one to the other. You might explore to see which chelating agent works for your son or daughter.


Q: Dr Deth-can you discuss the role of Omega 3s in methylation? Is there a good way that you know to determine how much a child needs?


A: Omega 3s are close partners to the phospholipids methylation. The brain has an extraordinary percentage of omegas. DHA for example makes up 25% of brain weight. Nature requires the brain have the fatty acids to that extent. They play into methylation because the fatty acids have kinks/bends and take up more space, are bulkier. The brain has a particular need for a certain spacing of the membrane phospholipids. The baseline is created by the diet and the omega 3s. If you have the wrong membrane structure to start with, the methylation wouldn’t work as well as it’s supposed to. Supplementing with omega 3’s in our lab made a huge difference in the dopamine.

During pregnancy the fetus takes the omegas from the mom, the fetus’ brain needs these, the mother gets depleted of DHA, this contributes to post-partum depression.


Q: My son did not improve with DMG -only in stools- and on TMG little. These cases imply the need of only MethylB12 and Folinic/Folic acid to support methionine synthesis if adenosine problems-ADA mutations- and DPPIV/CD26 can be also collaborating?? GFCF diet can affect methionine synthesis then?


A: (sorry, didn’t get this answer)


Q: Can pathogenic yeast and bacteria contribute a lot to methylation problems? Also does a child need to be absorbing zinc well for methylation supplements such as MB-12 to work?


A: There is a need for zinc in the methionine synthase. Zinc is needed for methylation, and for MB-12 to work right. MB-12 shots should be able to bypass gut inflammation issues.


Q: I had my 3.5 yr old son's reduced glutathione (and plasma sulfate & plasma cysteine) levels checked through Great Smokies after 3 mos on TMG, methyl B12 (and folinic acid orally). All three levels were extremely low. This was puzzling, since I thought in the studies by you and/or Dr. James, the GSH level normalized after several months on TMG, B12 shots & folinic acid. Could this be because we were also chelating at the same time, thereby depressing these levels?


A: Dr James did show those levels do normalize for the majority of people. In your son’s case, they didn’t. I wouldn’t think chelation would depress the levels. Metals can bind to cysteine, then get excreted, but that wouldn’t account for the low levels. Inflammation. Production of cysteine, glutathione, all from trans-sulfuration pathway, activated by inflammation. The fact that you don’t have enough of those levels – what is the homocysteine level – is that is also low, it might be adenosine holding things back. (homocysteine was low, according to person who asked question). Think about measuring adenosine.


Q: There has been recent discussion of whether or not any known "safe" chelator can actually pull mercury from the brain. What is you opinion of this? Does the mercury re-distribute in the body?


A: There is no agent that we know right now that has the ability to pull from the brain. Dr Boyd Haley is trying to design a new, better chelating agent. Once mercury is pulled with DMPS, there is a chance that it could un-bind if there is another sulphur group, but the general thought is that DMPS will take the mercury out to the sweat, urine, stool.


File : /20050713 Dr Richard Deth.doc

Uploaded by : hilarydowning <hilarydowning@yahoo.com>

Description : Dr Richard Deth BioChat


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Thanks for these transcipts Kim. I didn't get on the computer in time to hear either of these talks, but I really wanted to hear Dr Deth.


Are you thinking of trying methyl b12? Anyone here doing shots? We are using sublingual drops, but I imagine the shots are the best way to go.


Interesting what he said about tics and methylation. I wish a study could be done on tourettes and methylation.



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Your very welcome for the transcripts, but the true thanks should go to Hilary, and I will email her to let her know how helpful we are finding these notes.


It is really sounding like the B12 shots are helping some doesn't it. I noticed one of the speakers said the injections were better than the oral, but we have to remember our kids are not autistic, and hopefully some of these issues are easier to correct for our kids. Some with tics may have a better response with oral then the Autistic children, so it's so helpful to all of us here, and probably to the Dr.s too to see what results you get when you try something like the oral M B12.


I am really hoping my boys symptoms can be controled with diet, supplements etc. since they are pretty mild, but there is such a need in this area for exchange of information, if your kids are mild or not. Great to hear metals are looking better. Do you think there has been any improvement with the oral M12?

Any studies in this area would be wonderful, I'm really glad to see someone is looking at the EFA's at least, however the more I read, the more I think we are kind of on our own since Pharma funds so many studies, and I doubt we will get anywhere quickly. Thank Heaven's for the Dr.s who have gone off the beaten path to try to help these children.



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I will be the guest speaker on this week's Biochat at Dr.


> site. The topic will be enzymes and related issues. You can sign on


> just listen, or type in questions. The speaker will has a microphone


> you can hear the talk over your computer. Here is the link:


> http://www.drneubrander.com/page6.html


> It will be Thursday July 21, at 9 pm EST.


> Karen.

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Biochat, Thursday, July 21, 9:00pm


Karen DeFelice


Karen DeFelice has a Master's in Science and has

worked for 20 years in the

sciences and education. She is the author of Enzymes

for Autism and other

Neurological conditions. The pratical guide to

digestive enzymes and the

www.enzimestuff.com website. She moderates the enzymes

and autism yahoo

group that is 4 years old with nearly 5000 members.

She teaches on computer

topics, technical subjects, and information and

graphic design. She

develops educational training materials in print and

multimedia soft ware

for companies, universities and other organizations.


Synopsis and Reviews of Enzyme book Enzyme therapy is

one of the fastest

emerging successful alternatives for people on the

autism spectrum as well

as other neurological conditions. Reports of

significant improvements in

health, pain reduction, language, food tolerance,

socializing and other

benefits emerge daily. Drawing on long-standing

scientific research and

trials by a wide range of families, Karen DeFelice

deals comprehensively

with all the information that parents or those new to

enzymes need: how

enzymes work, who may benefit, what to expect,

practical tested advice on

selecting and introducing the right kinds of enzymes

and how this can be

combined with other approaches and therapies.


About the author Karen DeFelice and her two boys deal

with pervasive

neurological and sensory integration dysfunctions, and

have seen dramatic

improvement in their conditions through the use of

enzyme therapy. Karen

has a Master's in Science and works in education and

the Sciences.




click on Biomedical Treatments and Support Chatroom

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For those who are interested in vitamin B1 and vitamin B12


Authia cream - Thiamin Tetrahydrofurfuryl Disulfide (Vitamin B1) 50mg/ml, Methyl Cobalamin (Vitamin B12) 500mcg/ml. (each ml is approximately 1/5 of a teaspoon). Designed especially for those who are unable to take supplements in oral form or have absorption problems.


I have been looking at this treatment for awhile now. We tried a pill form for my child but he would not swallow it and the product has a smell to strong for shakes. I understand that the cream has a strong odor as well. It might not be as good as the needle but it can be bought off the internet without seeing a doctor hence forth it is cost effective for those who have budget concerns. Ecological formulas has alot of alternative medicine on line that DAN doctors use that can be bought by an individual.


Great thread that you have here Kim!

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Bio Chat notes From Session with Karen DeFelice Notes by Hilarydowning@yahoo.com


Karen DeFelice


Karen is starting a trial for high-dose enzymes for viral

conditions – contact her if you want in on the trial.



Q: My son (soon to be 3) got extremely aggressive when we tried

enzymes a few months ago. I had him on for about 2 weeks and we

couldn't take it, it was consistently getting worse so we

discontinued. He was recently scoped by Dr Krigsman, LNH in colon

and ileum. It was Houston enzymes. It was peptidase and took the

recommended dose on bottle.


A: When you have a sensitive gut, the tissue is torn up, the

peptidase irritates the tissue in the very beginning, so we

recommend you start with ½ capsule for a few days, then move up in

dose gradually, until you're up to full dose. It's like when you're

cleaning a wound with antiseptic and it stings, you have that torn

up tissue, the protease goes in like a washcloth to clean it out,

but it stings. So go the slow, low-dose method.


Q: Can my son take enzymes instead of doing the diet? If so, what

enzymes should I buy (where too), how much should I give to him and

when? He is 3 with autism. (and i understand the dosing now i think)


A: I'm assuming gf/cf when you say diet? If you're using Houston

Peptizyde, that is the one product that has consistently allowed

people to use the enzyme instead of doing the diet. Most people can

use Peptizyde instead of the gf/cf – 80-85%. But sometimes they need

to wait a few months, let the gut healing continue. There are other

enzyme products that you can take with the gf/cf diet, but they're

not designed to replace the diet. Enzymes have specific uses – you

might have an enzyme product that is not working for the results you


On dosing, low and slow is what I advocate. Really small changes can

send the nervous system through the roof. So for kids, use the low

and slow approach.


Q: If you have a child who had a history to many food intolerance's

with definite allergic reactions and has been GFCF,SF, CF DF….etc.

For several years, but also been chelating during the duration.

But, no longer using enzymes and is noticing through trials these

foods are becoming less sensitive.

Do you feel these food issues will eventually clear after we are

finished chelating without the continued use of enzymes?

Also over all would you recommend maintaining food avoidance before

the gut is fully healed over the use of enzymes?

Would it be right to say that enzymes will help heal the gut just as


Will enzymes accelerate the healing of the gut when it is still

heavy metal burdened?


A: We do have people in our enzyme group that have done that, so the

answer is yes. There are others that have been able to lose the

enzyme even without chelation, they become less sensitive to foods.

One of the properties of enzymes that is well-known is that they

help heal tissue. They help heal wounds externally and internally.

If you want to continue avoiding foods it's up to you. For some

families, avoiding food is just not an option, you do the best you


Theoretically the enzymes should help with detox, there is info on

the enzymestuff.com site. The theory and science indicate yes. There

is no study that says categorically yes, this happens, however.


Q: My son is 12 years old and has been taking Similase & Lipase

Concentrate-HP by Tyler and Ox Bile by Allergy Research Group. He

has difficulty and still can't tolerate foods such as tomato and

blueberries. What enzyme can we give to help him with foods such as



A: The two foods that you mention are phenolic or salicylic type

foods. These are the colored foods, and the phenols also happen to

be the anti-oxidants that help with oxidative stress. But the kids

with phenol and salicylic intolerance can't tolerate these foods.

No-Fenol by Houston is made specifically for this issue. The enzymes

break down the fibrous parts of grains, fruits, vegetables. There

might be other products that work for this, but this is the one I

know of.

Feingold (www.feingold.org)


Q: My question is about the enzymes with Isogest developed with

Kirkman in cooperation with Tim Buie's research- have you seen the

study yet and have you heard feedback from isogest enzymes?


A: I look at research, and then at anecdotes. Buie was doing

research to find the earliest way to find if a child has gut

problems. Kirkman's Isogest has more starch and sugar digesting

enzyme. Other research shows you can't just substitute Isogest, so

then the Isogest enzyme might not be doing anything new or different

then anything else.


Q: Hi Karen, What's the best time to give the enzymes? Everytime

they eat? At the start of a meal only? If your child is a grazer

and doesn't eat an entire meal or snack at one time how can you get

them in? Once enzymes are mixed into a food or drink do they last a

while or do they loose their effectiveness quickly? Thanks


A: The best time: enzymes work on contact. The enzyme should be

touching the food that it should break down. Given this, enzymes are

best taken at the beginning of the meal, this maximizes their

potential. If you forget, go ahead and take as soon as you remember,

it will still work to digest what's in your stomach.

It's up to you if you take it every time you eat. In the beginning,

you might get best results if you take it every time you it, helps

gut to heal.

You can put the enzymes in a drink and keep in the fridge, have that

drink along with the snack/food. Enzymes stay ok in drink up to 4

hours. My kids swallow capsules, so I just have them swallow. Some

parents make up peanut butter balls with the enzyme in it. You could

also split the capsule, put ¼ of it in whatever they eat each time

they graze.

Keep enzymes dry to preserve them, they are active when they get

wet. Keep them cool and dry.

If you keep them in the fridge, they'll last 4 hours. If you mix

them in nutballs, they can stay preserved in the freezer up to 2



Q: If my 3 yr old child has responded positively to IV secretin does

this mean that she requires follow up with enzymes.


A: From the people that have done both, it depends. No it doesn't

mean she requires it. Secretin has a particular goal of telling the

pancreas to release enzymes. Secretin tells the body to make

enzymes. If you take enzymes with your food, you're getting them

that way. If a child responds to secretin, they will probably do

well with enzymes.


Q: My 4 yr old son has sensory integration. We started AFP and

Zymeprime 3 mos. ago. He had about a 65 - 75 % improvement. We

started No-Fenol 2 weeks ago. He tends to have a lot of congestion

and ear problems. He has tested positive for mold allergy. Is

there any particular enzyme that could help with those issues or is

it just a matter of gut healing and time?


A: Go with the gut healing, stick with it, on average that is 3-6

months. If you're not seeing any improvement after 6 months,

reevaluate. Enzymedica makes a Mucostop product that helps respitory

system. Helps asthma and bronchitis, chest congestion.


Q: Hi, I got a recipe off the internet for an enzyme chocolate

wafer. I want to confirm that the process for making this doesn't

kill the enzymes. It's to melt casein free chocolate chips in a

microwave, when it cools to a point that it's just warm, open the

capsule and sprinkle in it and freeze. After melting the chocolate,

how cool should the chocolate be in order to not kill the enzymes

before sprinkling and freezing?


A: Melt chocolate first, when it's cool to the touch, put the enzyme

in. If cool enough for your mouth, it's cool enough to put the

enzyme in.


Q: For a young child, gf/cf/sf whose prone to yeast outbreaks whcih

enzyme do you recommend starting with? Also, can enzymes be given

with other meds/supplements?


A: Enzymes only work on certain things, they don't go throughout the

body doing random things, so they can be taken with pretty much any

medicine or supplement. If you're taking a time-released medication

with cellulose, then be careful with cellulase. There is more info

on the enzymestuff.com site.

If someone is prone to yeast outbreak, there is a good protocol.

Start low and slow, start enzymes with meals, it helps get nutrition

from the food. Then between meals, take Candidase, No-Fenol, or

Candex to work to break down yeast. These are yeast enzymes. Take

with a prescription or herbal yeast killer (Oil of oregano, pau

d'arco, grapefruit seed extract).


Q: Which enzymes work best - the Carbo/Lypo and Digest from

Enzymedica or the Houston enzymes? My kids have been taking the ones

from Enzymedica for over a year but I've heard so much about

Houston enzymes. We just started 1/4 cap of each of the Houston

enzymes today. I called my DAN doctor and they have never used them

but said they didn't feel you could go off the gfcf diet b/c there

would still be opiods introduced in the gut and the enzymes could

not handle them all.


A: It depends on the person. If you have a problem with casein and

gluten, the pepzidase from Houston. If you have a problem with fat

digestion, the Lypo helps that. Buy one bottle of each brand, try

one whole bottle at a time, you'll know by the end of the bottle if

it's working for you.

We've seen over and over that kids with gfcf diet have improvement,

then add enzymes, more improvement, then go off the diet and stick

with the enzyme and see the most improvement. The opiod problem –

proteins are insufficiently broken down. The enzymes break the opiod

proteins down even more.


Q: You just said that if a gut healing protocol is not working in a

year or so we need to evalute, but is that true if we are chelating

as well?


A: You should be seeing improvement along the way, except if you're

doing something that causes a problem, like stirring up yeast. The

yeast might delay the gut healing.


Q: 1.) do enzymes break down the lipoceutical gutathione or destroy

pro-biotics if given at the same time? 2.) my son does not get a

positive response from No Fenol or phenol assist unless given wiht

1/2 tsp of magnesium- can you explain why? 3.) Also, are you coming

back to WA state anytime soon- I missed your talk at Marlene's

Market a couple months ago.....


A: 1) With a good quality probiotic, this shouldn't happen (research

behind the product, and plenty of people saying that works well for

me). There is debate about this. Look on the bottle of the probiotic

package. Or take enzyme at beginning of meal, then probiotic at end

of meal. I don't know about the glutathione. 2) Some enzymes require

minerals as cofactors to get them to kick into gear. Some enzyme

products have trace minerals in them. 3) I may come next spring. I

have a calendar of talks in the calendar section of enzymestuff.com.

There is a list Probiotic Short Course on enzymestuff.com, this

lists the good enzymes that are widely used.


Q: Do you need to heal the gut before starting enzymes? Where do I

find your gut healing protocol? Have you heard of BioSet - what do

you think of this program? They are big on enzymes.


A: To heal the gut, use enzymes. Don't wait – add the enzymes in to

get the gut-healing going. Probiotics are another proactive gut-

healing action. One of the healing aspects of probiotics is they

make enzymes.

At enzymestuff.com, look up the great low and slow method, that's

the protocol. A really good product is Enzymedica Lacto, has very

low proteases, good to start with.

Lacto, V-gest by Enzymedica and the SCD Zyme Prime by Houston.

Lacto has dtt4 activity, breaks down the dairy.

The V-gest is low protease, breaks down fiber. Good for

constipation, colon-problems, etc.

Houston SCD Zyme Prime also very low protease.


Q: hi Karen. My son is 4yr old and enzymes has tremendously helped

my son. Your website and book is excellent and very very helpful.

we are chelating our son. I give my son Candex alongwith houston

enzymes. Can i give No Fenol along with candex?


A: Yes, No Fenol and Candex both help with yeast, but are very

different formulations, so give together or rotate, because if one

doesn't work the other might. They both target yeast.


Q: My son also has some sleep problems. I was wondered if he

doesn't have a magnesium deficiency. Does he need to be tested to

find what his levels are before beginning a magnesium supplement?


A: If you're magnesium deficient, which most Americans are and most

ASD kids are, get some magnesium, see if he improves. Try Epsom

salts or magnesium supplement before he goes to sleep. It's easy to

build up more calcium then magnesium, but you need to have them in

balance for the magnesium to get utilized.



Q: what is the best enzyme for someone just starting out? kirkman,



A: Make sure it's a good quality line of products, then determine

the problem you're trying to fix – mucous, yeast, gluten/casein etc.

Find the enzyme that works for that problem, then find the product

that contains that enzyme from a reputable source. Kirkmans,

Houston, Enzymedica all make multiple products. Peptizyde by Houston

is the king of the gf/cf diet issue. The regular Peptizyde has

papain in it. If you have salicylic intolerance, use ASC.

Best for yeast is start Lacto with meals (gentle enzyme), then

Candidase, No-Fenol, or Candex as the yeast-killing enzyme. You can

mix and match different types of enzymes.

6-12 enzymes are not high, don't feel limited to one enzyme. More

serious diseases like cancer, folks take 40 enzymes a day.


Q: Does it mean anything when you have an adverse reaction to

Zymeprime? (with cellulose)


A: We had 2 or 3 people in the group with this problem – they had

coconut allergies and happened to react bad to this product. MCT oil

helps the capsules fill correctly, that has the same fat as coconut,

so that's the connection. These kids are highly sensitive. Better

check other supplement labels too because they have MCT oil.

(scroll down to Monolaurin, FYI)



Q: We have been on the enzymes for 3 years. We still need them. Does

that mean his gut is not healed?We are still GFCF. He is doing very

well, but still has meltdowns occasionally that I can't really

predict. I am looking into B-12 shots. We can't chelate until we are

filling free. We have done some rounds of nystatin. We are just

starting PCA-RX to try to boost his immune and try to draw some

metals out. Is that what you mean to reevaluate. By the way, it is

good to hear your voice. You and Cindy helped me get started on

enzymes years ago. Besides a meltdown occaisionally(every few

months) we are doing well but still need to reach peers socially.

Functions well socially within the family.I guess I'm asking what do

people do when they go to the next level for further healing.


A: A yeast problem can make it very hard to heal the gut. That might

be delaying the healing. If you still need the enzymes, you still

need the enzymes.


Q: 1) After 8 months of GFCF my son still tested IgG high on Casein

(Alletess and immunosciences). My son improved a bit with all 3

houston enzymes. Do the Houston's help with casein cross reactors?

Immunosciences told Dr JM that there are cross reactors with casein

that can cause high casein igg even when off casein. 2) are their

any enzymes that are ok for kids with high IgG to yeast and not

allowed to have yeast? What about pancreatic enzymes???


A: 1) yes. Yeast byproducts can register on the casein peptide test,

so maybe you don't have casein problem, but a yeast overgrowth.

Yeast can proliferate on the gf/cf diet.

VirusStop enzyme was helping a lot of folks with virus issues.

Again, let me know if you're interested in the trial we're doing.

2) Pancreatic enzymes are great, they work really well, but they are

not stable. They need to be coated. They don't get started until

they're in the small intestine. Plant and microbial enzymes are

perfectly stable in the stomach acid, so they make more sense then

the pancreatic ones since they start digesting the minute you take

them. If you can't tolerate the plant or microbial, you could try

the pancreatic.


Q: Do enzymes help reduce a bloated gut? My guy has a distended gut

and has for quite some time. We started Kirkman's enzymes about a

month ago. Also is there any problems if enzymes are taken without



A: Yes, they can, for example Bean-o is an enzyme, it breaks the

bond in legumes that produce gas.

No, no problem if the enzyme is taken without food, it will do more

healing and cleaning out.

Go ahead and give 3 or 4 Kirkman's enzymes with every meal, since

you're dong fine with the one capsule each meal after a month.


Q: Do you find that once a child with ASD's gut is healed then goes

through chelation, do they need to continue taking digestive enzymes

any longer… Is taking enzymes for a recovered child usually still a

lifelong thing? I've heard through the internet parent grapevine is

that once chelated, a child is usually more able to handle foods

with gluten and casein in it. Do you find that this is true?


A: There are some that have gone through chelation and don't need to

take enzymes anymore. There are also others that haven't chelated,

and they eventually don't need enzymes either. My younger son had

reflux, constipation, etc and he doesn't need enzymes any more,

after 4 years. He never was chelated.

After a while, you realize that taking enzymes is like taking a

multivitamin – it helps with digestion and nutrition.

I too have heard that chelated kids and even non-chelated kids can

grow out of needing the gf/cf diet. If you tackle the root cause,

the food problems can go away.


Q: my son dandc gave him bioset digistive enzyme. It was doing good,

but I just witched to take houston enzymes, he gets constipation, do

you have any advices for this

A: If it was ZymePrime, try taking that out, and use other enzymes.

He might also need more magnesium. Go with the one he did better on



Q: Can you recommend an enzyme supplement for recurrent viral eye

infections possibly herpatic in nature? What would you recommend

for a child who likes do eat weird non-food things - toilet(urine)

water, feces - & likes to lick people and things?


A: Viral – VirusStop by Enzymedica. You can also give any strong

protease, like Peptizyde.

Non-food things – this usually points to a mineral deficiency,

usually magnesium, zinc or calcium. Use soluble magnesium. Then try

zinc if mag doesn't work – use soluble zinc. My younger son takes

400-600 grams of magnesium a day. 1000 mg a day is the therapeutic

dose. Give more and more magnesium until you get loose stools

regularly, that's your max. Then drop that slightly until stools

firm up.


Q: My son tested with a high lactate level. Do enzymes help with

this? Any enzymes that should be used vs. avoided? My son is

currently taking all three of the Houston enzymes.


A: I don't know. I'm not sure what a high lactate level indicates.

Write me at kjorn@thundersnow.com and I'll research for you.


Q: I loved your books – thanks! My 3.5 yr old started GFCFSF, then

SCD Zyme Prime (cellulose), AFP Peptizyde, & No Fenol – we started

all very slowly and went up to 1 capsule each with each meal. We

also started SCD after enzymes. Dramatic response to GFCF,

continued improvement thereafter. About 4 mos into the enzymes, my

son started losing weight (a few pounds), gagging every time we gave

the enzymes (in pear juice). Dr. McCandless told us that the little

kids have trouble tolerating the Houston line of enzymes, and

recommended the Kirkman's brand. Any reason why this would be? Our

BioSET practitioner did confirm that my son is "allergic" to the

Houston enzymes. We've switched to Kirkman's and BioSET brand (I

think it's Enzymedica private-labeled) and he's tolerating the new

enzymes much better, but I miss the GFCF safeguard of Peptizyde, and

I'd love to know if there is a class of people who have problems

with strong enzymes like the Houston's. (My son has a problem with

loose stools).


A: Sometimes a dr might have an affinity for a product. You might

need to take more of a product to equal one of a Houston. Or if you

want less, you don't have to take the whole capsule at once.

It's not common for enzymes to cause a gagging reflux.

Enzymes usually work from the beginning. If you're going to have a

bad reaction, you usually have it from the beginning.

I don't think it was the enzymes doing it. Look at what he's eating.

Could it be a yeast or bacteria problem. Dr Crook (wrote yeast book)

said when you take enzymes it starts to break down the yeast, and

causes throwing up from die off. If you have yeast in lower colon,

the stools are funky.

I'm not sure how the BioSet works, but if it's working for you, go

with it.








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Great post Kim, you gave alot of people confirmation on the enzyme question on can it repair damage.

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Sorry this is so late... I think this may be one to catch if at all possible.


go to http://www.drneubrander.com/page6.html

then click on biomedical treatments and support



Friday July 29, 9:00pm EST

Michael Lang, MFA

Michael Lang is the father of two children, nine and

twelve, previously Autistic and recovered using only

nutritional and dietary biochemical interventions for

natural detoxification. Both his daughter and son are

essentially non-autistic, doing very well in regular

education with no need for aides, establishing peer

relationships, and for all practical purposes, leading

healthy, normal lives. He is a former college

professor who became a parent-researcher and a

nutritional consultant specializing in the

biochemistry of Autism after his first child's

diagnosis in 1996. Michael’s operating philosophy of

cause, effect, and treatment in ASD has long been

“That while mercury may be the rock thrown, sulfur

chemistry is the window that it has broken.”


Michael has committed the balance of his life to

facilitating the recovery of other children with

Autism and establishing the causal connection between

multi-generational vaccine and environmental toxin

exposures, broad compromises in sulfur chemistry, and

ASD. He is also the formulator, founder, and president

of BrainChild Nutritionals, a supplement company with

a sole focus of supporting the specific biochemical

needs and facilitating the natural detoxification of

children living within The Spectrum.


With great hope,


Michael Lang, President

BrainChild Nutritionals Inc





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