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  1. Just another few data point for you all, my 8yr old experienced a sudden flare in her TS tics within about 8 hours of the pfizer covid vaccine #1 in November 2021 which lasted a few weeks. For me, when I got my Covid booster in November 2021, an old lumbar spine L4 nerve compression issue that I had (and had not acted up in the previous 8 months) flared within about the same timeframe (8hours) of receiving the booster. Not saying not to get the vaccines, but there is definitely an inflammation thing going on.
    3 points
  2. JessL

    I’m angry

    Ugh. Big hugs. I'm so sorry, I really feel you. I was where you are just last month, emailing and calling our doctor in tears asking if this is how our lives will be forever now. I still wake at all hours of the night with a hundred questions and thoughts etc, waiting for the night time wake ups of screaming etc. It feels neverending. PTSD for parents with PANS/PANDAS is SO real. The caregivers need help too. This is a lonely wild ride. If you're able to find a support group I know a lot of parents find just venting to people who understand therapeutic. Xxo
    3 points
  3. Priscilla

    Possibly PANDAS?

    Funny I just got a notification from this response. I have not been on this forum in a very long time. I am so happy to report that I have a very healthy happy 16-year-old daughter who is no resemblance to the child that was in such turmoil. I will however say it has contributed to the person she is kind, compassionate and confident. I just went for an IEP meeting today which we did not even try Start one until eighth grade where things got worse before they got better but I have to say once over the hump of entering puberty things really started to balance out. She has not used one accommodation from her bare bones IEP she has good grades healthy social relationships and almost no residual OCD. I hope this gives hope to the parents that are going through this. My main advice and one of the hardest lessons I learned and she actually helped me see it was not turning her into something that needed to be fixed with all the desperation of trying to find her help she did feel like that for a time. Funny once I excepted exactly how she was whether it was going to last forever or not is when she started to get better. Sending love and good vibes to all of you and hope for a better day.
    3 points
  4. Chemar

    Eye tics

    @MLee We initially started Magnesium alone, based on Bonnie Grimaldi's research on TS tic reduction with Mag. The effect was very quick for my son with the Mag supplement at 400mg/day along with nightly Epsom Salts baths. It is generally recommended to be sure that there is an intake of Calcium (food or supp) at twice the amount of the Mag dose. My son was 10yo at the time, and his doctor said to use the adult doseage of megnesium. We added the B6 later based on the physician's recommendation, and it definitely helped with many aspects of Tourette Syndrome 400mg is still the suggested adult supplemental magnesium dose as far as I know.
    2 points
  5. I don’t post much but am a long time member. I first posted in 2010 over a year after my daughter recovered from a severe 1 year long episode of PANDAS anorexia. That post is still available if you do a search. She was 10 and had overnight sudden onset severe anorexia /OCD. She had high aso titers for almost a year. There were very few people who could help us at the time so it took 3 months to even figure out the issue. She eventually returned to normal almost as suddenly as it came on. She has been great ever since. I posted another update in 2016 when she was starting college. She had no further PANDAS related issues until this year. She rarely was sick (probably because of her over reactive immune system) but we always continued to have her tested for strep even with a slight sore throat. She graduated from college in May of 2020. She was accepted to medical school later in 2020 and started in July of this year (2021). Her school was very pushy with the COVID vaccine which we did not want her to get but she got it anyway because she felt she was going to be prevented from fully participating in everything without the vaccine. I am not anti vax at all. We did delay her 12 y/o vaccines until she was 15 and she got them all separately. I just felt like the COVID vaccine risk vs benefit for her did not warrant it at all. Nevertheless, she received the vaccine in early June. When she started school in July she was loving school! She had met many new friends and was doing great. Fast forward to the last weekend of August, I received a call at 3 am from my daughter. She said for the last 24 hours she has had very severe anxiety and could not sleep at all. She said it started in the middle of the night before so she had not slept in almost 2 days. Things were getting really bad and we had to fly her home. She proceeded to be unable to sleep as well as unable to study. She said she was having trouble concentrating on even simple usually easy tasks. She was completely non functional as a medical student and after a few days took a short term leave from school. Before we even flew her home she had seen a psychiatrist who immediately put her on buspirone and gave her something to help her sleep. She was able to get small blocks of sleep at least but the anxiety was unchanged. She was able to eat but not eating very well. My normally super independent grown daughter was unable to make any decision and she was also frequently coming in my room at night and sleeping on the floor as if she were a child. She was a completely different person and we felt it had to be a PANDAS type situation. Fortunately a lot has changed in 13 years and we were able to get her in with an autoimmune neurology specialist. She typically saw pediatric patients but agreed to see my daughter due to her past history and her current situation. We did extensive blood work. This time the strep was negative. She had a positive monospot test (no recent illnesses) but her Epstein Barr numbers came back negative. She tested positive for both IgG and IgM antibodies for micoplasma (again no recollection of feeling poorly). She was given a course of antibiotics. We weren’t seeing any changes for the better. The buspirone was not seeming to help her anxiety/OCD at all. She said the only difference was she was not experiencing the physical symptoms she was the first week or so like the racing heart rate. The difficult part of this happening to your grown child is that they get to make their medical decisions. She was convinced that this was not autoimmune related and was annoyed I was asking the doctor about the vaccine. She kept blaming herself for everything. It was very hard to watch my typically positive energetic confident daughter turn into a self doubting mess. The doctor wanted to put her on a 5 week course of steroids but she was pushing back saying it would make her gain weight. She was not getting better and started getting pretty depressed. About 8 weeks into this (and 9 pounds lighter) with no improvement she made the difficult decision to take an extended leave from school and she agreed to start the steroid. At the same time, her psychiatrist put her on a low dose antidepressant. Literally a day after starting the steroid I noticed some changes in her mood and she seemed to be doing a little better. She was sleeping better too. She still was definitely having struggles but there was a definite improvement. Some time during about the third week of the steroid she became much better…almost to baseline. It has now been almost another 3 weeks and I feel her demeanor is mostly back to her normal happy self. She is eating well and has put back on a few needed pounds). This was, however, a big blow to her confidence as a medical student. She still believes it might have just been her being stressed but her dad and I know better. She will continue with counseling that we started to help her get her confidence back so she can hopefully return to school as the same caliber student they admitted. We still do not know for sure what caused this to happen after so long. My guess is that it was either the micoplasma or the COVID vaccine or perhaps both. Something turned her monospot positive too but it was not mono. We will be seeing her doctor in another couple of weeks and hopefully get blood work done again. I can tell you one thing is for sure. As they say…”out of abundance of caution” she will not be getting any COVID boosters. I just wanted to reiterate that I’m not antivax. I think the COVID vaccine has saved many lives. I just think that there is a possibility that it could play some role in autoimmunity. We just don’t know the answer yet. Until then everyone has to do that they think is best for their own situation. I just wanted to add my daughter’s story as just another case history.
    2 points
  6. Hi @MLee My son does well now and his tics are so minimal that hardly anyone would notice them. Even when they are triggered now - they are nowhere near what he once had in his preteen years! His tics started to improve as soon as he stopped the pharma rx meds, started specific supplements/nutrients, avoided things that triggered his tics. As he passed the teenage pubertal years, there was a continued improvement in the overall tics. He has a good job, works hard, nice apartment. Well adjusted, and, having dealt with TS since childhood, he is a more compassionate and empathic person toward others. He feels TS gave him a lot of insights he may not have otherwise had. Number one tic trigger still seems to be stress - which is often harder to control in this stressful world - and so he continues to create and play music to relax, plus he has a set up that allows him to unwind with video games that is not triggering for him. He has maintained a healthy organic diet, and avoids any food additives that have always triggered his tics (artificial colors, flavors, chemical fillers, MSG etc etc) He also still avoids other environmental things that he has long known were triggers for his tics (eg chlorine pools, flashing lights, artificial fragrances/perfume etc). He continues to take certain supplements that work well for him. Experience has shown him that these are important to his overall health and well being, as well as to keeping TS symptoms minimal. Hope that answers your question :)
    2 points
  7. Hi @madimi - there must be something in the air! After a good chunk of time with mild tics, not gone, but really not noticeable, my daughter over the last 2 weeks has seen a big increase in tics and new ones. She has been doing an eye wink/lip stretch for a while but would happen maybe 1-3 times an hour, now it's literally every 2-5 seconds. She's also started to scrunch up her stomach/slight hunching over, incessant scratching all over her body, throat clear/grunt type sound every 5 seconds. I've had two meltdowns privately over this. Frankly every time I see her do this (which is often), it feels like a knife is stabbing my heart. I do hide all my emotions from her, and it still continues not to bother her. In fact, today she went to the park to play, ran into 5 other classmates and they all ended up in our backyard playing and it made me so happy to see. I hold onto the good, and have started my own gratitude journal to write down 1-3 things I'm grateful for every day to get me through this. I've actually started her doing it as well, every night before bed she writes down 1 thing she's grateful for. In addition to all of this, my older daughter (12) who has had vocal tics on and off for years (no motor), developed an eye roll in January. It went away after 3 weeks and two days ago, started up again. She told me today, friends are starting to ask at school what is wrong with her eyes. We've had discussions about her vocal tics, as she also has a very frequent throat clearing tic, so she knows what tics are, but I'm certain she doesn't talk about it with her friends. She has ADHD and I'm also starting to see OCD tendencies in her. Like I said, my heart hurts, I keep trying to see the good, remind myself this increase in activity will hopefully pass soon and continue to be present for my kids. But it's so challenging. I worry about their future and their happiness. You are not alone in this!
    2 points
  8. Get any help you can. I understand you fully and we've been in the exact situation multiple times. I can not talk for your child but I know my daughter can catch me easily if I watch her tics and this makes her nervous and also negatively effects the tic frequency. I still get caught time to time, but I thought myself to make her comfortable during the peaks as it's the not the easiest but shortest way out for both of us. I think stress certainly has an effect. Under negative stress I see the tics rise quickly. I try to apply positive stress as much as possible, like a physical competition , memory games, any thing that would direct her concentration to somewhere else. Believe it or not, every 30 sec is not really a high frequency. I had so much worse on some tics. Just today, she started blinking both eyes same time (not like blinking but like closing and opening) , we had this tic couple of times before. Sometimes today it got really frequent. A few minutes after I told her, it might be better not to use iPad as her eyes look tired, she came and told me, I don't want to do it (close eyes) but I also want to ... trying to explain herself. I said, it's quite ok and to do whichever she feels better, closing or not closing and added it will go away in a few days maximum anyway (that's some good will) Back to my first sentence, get any help you can, if you are not well, you can not help.
    2 points
  9. I wanted to add that I was listening to the Dr. Robert Malone podcast regarding the vaccine. At about 1 hour 39 minutes he talks about the spike proteins crossing the blood brain barrier which can cause inflammation and other problems. It’s interesting since this is what the antibodies do in PANDAS…cross the BBB and cause inflammation. I can’t help but think there is a similarity in the two. I guess in time maybe we will know.
    2 points
  10. I completely understand with needing to hear from others. We tried so many supplements over the years. We also did neurofeedback (muscle testing) and cognitive behaviour therapy with a child psychologist. Looking back the most important things that helped were - clean diet (real food not processed) with low oxalate foods, tonsil and adenoid removal, and learning how to "fight" his ocd and "worry brain" with common sense techniques that were given to us by the psychologist. Those techniques continue to be useful to this day, but only when he's not in a flare. When in flare it's too hard - his brain is inflammed and only abx will work. Tamar Chansky's books are helpful in understanding the talk-back techniques. I would also say that learning to re-wire his brain with music lessons also helped. People seem to look at me sideways when I say that but I truly believe it made and continues to make a difference. Another book I recommend is: The Brain's Way of Changing by Norman Doidge. It's been a long journey for us and we understand that our son will always have tics and worry brain issues to some degree, but they can be managed and he is living a great life. He excels at school, has many friends, participates in sports, camps, etc and is very happy about his life.
    2 points
  11. kimballot

    New Hope New Year

    Hello fellow PANS/ PANDAS parents. Some old-time folks may recognize my name. Others are likely unaware of the struggles my family has endured for the last decade. I found this forum in 2010 after a H1N1 hit our family in the fall of 2009 and my son was hit with yet another PANS exacerbation. He was 12 years old at the time and had struggled with chronic sinusitis and Pans for much of his life, though the preceding 5 years had been relatively quiet as a result of a 2007 tonsillectomy. The H1N1 set off a major immune response that led us to Dr. B in CT who found a large muscle in his ethmoid sinus and immune deficiency. After emergency surgery, we started him on HD IVIG, which initially triggered a severe PANS exacerbation. After several months of repeated HD IVIG, he showed signs of bartonella infection and began treatment for that. Around 2015 he seemed to be at a standstill- requiring rifampin and doxy and HD IVIG every 8 weeks. He was able to attend school part time, eventually finish an alternative HS with a local degree, and take some part time classes at a community college with grades in theC-B range. Vocational rehab worked with us, but did not want to invest money in tutoring or books for college as he scored so very low in math they did not think there was ANY college degree he could ever achieve. In 2017 he started seeing a local immunologist who does work with mitochondrial disorder, who did some bloodwork followed by a muscle biopsy, which showed mito dysfunction. He followed this with a genetic blood test which showed a genetic mutation leading to mitochondrial structural problems. He started on a mitochondrial cocktail and was soon able to go to community college full time. His grades went from Bs to As and he was inducted into the honor society. He transferred to a 4- year college last year as a dual major in philosophy and computer information systems. He loves computer coding. He has a 4.0 average. He has friends, work, girlfriend. He is a nice guy. He is still on doxy and the infectious disease doc we work with cannot explain why, but thinks it is gut-related. We are still searching to get him off doxy. He has not had IVIG since January, 2018, and he is fine without it. I am not telling you this to brag. I am telling you this because 5 years ago I thought he would never be able to live independently. I am also not telling you this to say the your child has a mito disorder. I have been on these facebook pages and forums long enough to know that there are only two things our kids have in common: 1. Unexplained psychiatric symptoms linked to illness; 2. Parents that recognize #1. I know you are the fighter, warrior parent. I know you know your child best. I believe you will find what works best for your child. I don’t care if that is psychiatric meds, mito meds, a gluten free diet, or mold remediation. I believe you will find it and once you do you will hang on to it. I wish I could wave a magic wand and just relieve everyone of their worries. I know how desperate I was from 2010- 2018, I know how many times I logged into this forum and hung on every word I read, and I know how much positive stories helped. I hope this helps you in your journey and I wish you all the best.
    2 points
  12. wisdom_seeker

    Pans and mold

    Oh do I understand the stuck and pissed, and $$$ stressed and tired. If you want to talk over what you've already done and seen, and brainstorm, give me a call. I'm not an environmental hygienist, but I've unfortunately dealt with hidden sources. And as the CIH I work with repeatedly told me, "an outlet or hairline crack in the drywall is like a highway" and the killer thing is that "every time you change air pressure, say by closing a door, it forces mold fragments & mycotoxins out through those gaps". So if I can help with the detective work, I will. Where are you located? Lucy PS. I'm a night owl on PST, in the SF Bay Area. Send a DM.
    2 points
  13. Hope36, I am so glad you saw our post. We started noticing certain foods would make his tics more noticeable & more out of control. We started removing all processed meats, especially hotdogs & brawts. We found these always made his tics flare up. We also cut out pizza, except for gluten free. We don’t believe he has a gluten allergy. However, most gluten free foods are also more natural with no preservatives & additives, which we believe affect our son. We also never eat Chinese food because of the MSG in it. It makes his tics awful. I buy only breads that state no high fructose corn syrup & it doesn’t seem to bother our son. I buy Healthy Life whole wheat bread at Walmart & also Sara Lee brand has some bread that is labeled no high fructose corn syrup. If we buy sandwich meat, turkey or ham, I buy Oscar Mayer Natural. It will show no artificial ingredients & no nitrates, which are additives to preserve longer. Our son likes peanut butter & Jelly so he eats that at school & we send lightly salted Pringles & organic granola bars. We also send organic annie’s Chocolate chip cookies a few days a week. I have also found that Kraft Mac & cheese does not affect him since they’ve removed the preservatives, etc. The Kraft Mac n cheese bowls are easy too. We mainly stick to all fresh fruits & vegetables & we cook at home primarily so we know what is in his food. I know it’s overwhelming, but over time it won’t be. Mainly stick to fresh fruits & veggies. Also we use Young Living oils because they are more pure. You should be able to find a local contact who may sell them in your area. I hope this helps & we are always here! Hugs
    2 points
  14. prestopony

    Supplements

    I'm sorry you're having trouble getting a doc to help, it's so frustrating. This board was so helpful to me. Like many kids, my 15 year old daughter was diagnosed with PANS after many years of suffering. She is on a lot of supplements, so it's hard to know which ones are really successful! We use: Enhansa for inflammation - follow the guidelines for slow introduction, we noticed a big herx as is said might happen. For anxiety, we use CDB oil and Lithium oratate. Her 23 and me showed folate issues, so she takes Methyl Assist. Magnesium Citrate along with Buffered Vitamin C for constipation (as needed, which used to be all the time at the beginning of treatment!) - I can't stress enough the brain/gut connection to think about during treatment. She takes Thera-lac probiotic too And Super Lysine Plus for immunity support. To balance out the stress of so many years of anxiety and poor sleep we use Cortisol Manger, and Seriphos - I think these are at the bottom of the list of what I think has really been helpful though And, she is on the low-FODMAP diet Upon initial diagnoses, her PANS doc put her on Augmentin which was amazing. Came off of it, flared, tried Zithromicin, didn't work, went back on another month of Augementin, came off of it, and stayed well. During flares, unless her bloodwork shows something, we use a month of Naproxen (regular over-the-counter Aleve) - and it works beautifully. So, treating the inflammation seems to be key during flares. I would think also that a too-short supply of antibiotics is not going to help. Now, my son, who does not have PANS that I know of, but is suddenly dealing with extreme intrusive thoughts and OCD (my daughter's was just EXTREME separation anxiety and EXTREME generalized anxiety) I'm taking what I know about inflammation and scouring this board for help - and trying some things with him: NAC - an amino acid that has had some documented success helping OCD in larger doses L-Theanine - another amino acid that promotes relaxation and calms the brain and elevates GABA and serotonin I just started him on Enhansa last week. Reason being we just found out that he's allergic to EVERYTHING - grass, trees, weeds, mold, dust, cats, chickens (we have eight), dogs (we have three) guinea pigs (we have two). So he has started allergy shots, but in the meantime I can only think that there is inflammation in him from all of these undetected allergies. His probiotic is called Mood-Super strains - with strains that are geared specifically towards anxiety and depression I just learned about this product yesterday from my sister-in-law. My son's cousin, who has OCD, takes 5-htp (another amino acid) and he says it helps a great deal. She uses the Natrol brand. He does not take any pharma for his OCD/anxiety, and said when he stopped taking the 5-htp he noticed he felt a lot worse, so he now takes it again. As far as pharma for my daughter for her anxiety, we held out as long as we could, but she became unsafe and jumped out of a moving car. So we eventually we put her on an SSRI - it worked a bit, but never really well, so we switched to another, it also worked a bit but never really well, so we added in another, which, as expected, worked a bit, but never really well. Fast forward to a year after PANS diagnoses, and this truckload of supplement she takes!, she is off of all pharma, she took a class at the local high-school (and I didn't have to sit in the class with her, lol!), she now sleeps over at friends houses, and is enrolled in the Community College for the fall. So while the psych meds helped a bit, they were not the final answer for us. Sending you good thoughts for your daughter - and lots of good thoughts for you too! Hang in there mom!
    2 points
  15. Hello, This is my first time on here. Chris is my husband & I wanted to give an update on our son. He is now 9 years old & I'm happy to say his tics are now under control, with only occasional motor tics. We are so thankful for sites like this. Otherwise we would have never known to restrict his diet & try essential oils. I have several friends who have reached out after my recent post on social media & they are also seeing positive results with changing diet & applying essential oils. I spend much more time at the grocery store checking labels on anything that is processed foods. I buy mostly fresh fruits, vegetables & all natural meats. We can always tell if our son eats something that is not within his diet. His tics are almost instantly much more visible & it takes a few days to get him back to normal. We are so thankful everyday to have our happy go lucky son back. We know that he may always have tics, but it’s so reassuring to know that it is controllable with something as simple as diet changes & his daily half tablet of Guanfacine. I have said from the beginning I will always make sure he has a normal, happy life, no matter what. It is possible. My son is a reminder everyday.
    2 points
  16. Jumping in with a different perspective. Was your son vaccinated? Vaccine adjuvants are designed to cross the BBB, specifically aluminium. There was much discussion on this site that Pandas is a version of aluminum toxicity. With vaccines, the aluminum is designed to hold onto the antigen and keep it in the body long term; thereby introducing antigens into the brain as well. It is believed that detoxing from aluminum and mercury helps quiet the immune system. We have tried selenium for mercury, malic acid for aluminum and other stuff as well. She is probably not all clean, but definitely is aluminum sensitive- she cannot tolerate aluminum based deodorant. She is currently using Diatomaceous earth for a slow detox for everything. I think it is helping well. I have learnt about vaccine reactions about seven years ago, and have not vaccinated my kids since. I have 2 totally unvaccinated kids, and several partially vaccinated. It is a CRIME what pharma is doing to our kids without knowing the long term effects. I can honestly say, VACCINES ARE NOT WORTH IT! Which parent would not nurse a child through a bad case of pertussins or measles, and even sweat the time through the a hospitalization for physical problems versus dealing with what we are dealing with here?!!! Just venting my pain. I wish I would have known about this issue many many years ago.
    2 points
  17. Our daughter was treated with plasmapheresis in 2017. She has pandas/Pans but not Lyme (we think?). She was typically treated adequately with antibiotics but for whatever reason we couldn’t get that one flare under control with abx or prednisone, so we went looking for ivig. .. The immunologist we found had more success in his patients with plasmapheresis than ivig. Our daughter’s symptoms were severe at this point. It is also often easier to get insurance coverage for plasmapheresis than ivig, which is curious to me. For all these reasons, we went with plasmapheresis, and would do it again in a heartbeat. I cannot express how life-changing it was. (Two years out we may be needing it again, and if we do, I will be nothing but optimistic going into it.) We are in VA so I don’t think I can help as far as who can treat near you. However, don’t take the “it’s impossible to get in CA” and just give up.... start making phone calls. Call area hospitals and ask if they do plasmapheresis at ALL, regardless of reason. Ask which immunologists order it. Work backwards from there. You are at an advantage because of your son’s age, as the issue is often finding an apheresis unit with the capability of treating a peds patient. Your son is not a peds patient so you already don’t have that barrier! I do not have experience with Lyme related to plasmapheresis. Also don’t take the “insurance won’t cover” without checking your plan on your own. You can call and ask if the cpt code is covered (I don’t have it in front of me but could find it) and whether it needs preauth. Don’t give up. Hope I helped or at least gave hope. Good luck.
    2 points
  18. Donald Raden, MD is an Integrative Psychiatrist in Highwood, IL. His practice is called the Raden Wellness Center. My son (age 13) has been under Dr. Raden’s care for 1 year. He saved my son’s life. He treats many young adults with PANDAS. My son’s case was severe.
    2 points
  19. I contacted PANDAS Network right after the episode. This morning I received this response from Diana Pohlman: "We heard from lots of parents and 600 innundated the producers email. We are following up with an email to the producers as well. Happily 20-20 is doing a great story on REAL TREATMENT mid May and that will be on ABC." NBC is the producer for Chicago Med.
    2 points
  20. Oh my, I'm so sorry! Your son's description of how he's feeling reminds me vividly of Susannah Cahalan's description of her own auto-immune illness in "Brain on Fire." She, too, experienced paranoia and some other symptoms that many traditional doctors would all too readily dismiss as solely psychiatric manifestations, dispensing with the underlying physical issues. If your son is a danger to himself or to others, you will need to get him immediate help; if that means the hospital, then it's the hospital. Unfortunately, I think it likely that you should expect to be met with some psychiatric interventions -- tranquilizers, at a minimum -- if he presents as agitated or full-on delusional at admissions. You may have reached a crossroads where the abx are insufficient for meeting his illness adequately. Can you get a PANDAS/PANS specialist on board? I know a number of families here have allowed short-term and periodic use of anti-psychotics or tranquilizers (Valium, Seroquel, etc.), just to get there kids calm enough to travel for help, and/or to give the kid and the whole family a break and some sleep. I'm not advocating that, necessarily, but you have to do what works in order to give your kid their best chance at a route which leads to the best healing. Hang in there. Hopefully, someone else will chime in with more direct experience that may resonate with your situation.
    2 points
  21. I am checking as the mom much farther down the road to be a help, if I can. My daughter was diagnosed in November 2012. This is our five year anniversary with this disease and there is HOPE for all of your kids. This is long but please read: With one of the most profound and difficult to treat cases to ever treat - my daughter is staring community college in the spring! You name the symptom and she has exhibited it - to name a few... complex tics, anorexia, bed wetting, mutism, depression, OCD, sleep disorders, a host of psychiatric symptoms (including schizoprhenic type symptoms including violence), and catatonia. She has also had every treatment - countless antibiotics, IVIVGs, rituximab, cell cept, prophylactic antibiotix, cytoxan, tociluzimab. We lost four years of life - she lost high school, and I shut down ever yaspect of life to take care of her. It has been lonely, frustrating, difficult, depressing...and yet hopeful, strengthening, funny, and finally TRIUMPHANT. I am repositing something a wrote in 2015 to give you all some encouragement and some general advice - especially to parents of children who are most severely affected. After I wrote this my daughter's trajectory slowed, but we found tociluzumab was the treatment that finally rounded out her recovery and though she still has some memory loss and is still making her way back academically. We know that she is going to have a NORMAL LIFE. Just a year ago, I thought she would always be with us, never have a job, never have friends...and now she is learning to drive and starting college classes (with a little support from special services) in a few weeks. Now she is running, swimming, laughing, talkative, and back to her old self - volunteering at a local library and worried about her hair and makeup (you have no idea what a big deal that is). Remember that every child presents differently and the part of the autoimmune system that is affected - and therefore the treatment that works - is different for each child. That said, PM me or ask me here and I will try to start checking in now that I too have my own life back. Hang in there....it will get better... Here is the 2015 post. My daughter has one of the most severe and drug-resistant cases of what falls under the big umbrella of a strep-induced autoimmune disorder that left her with severe neurological and significant joint involvement. For those who don't remember us, my daughter was an exceptional student and athlete, and world's happiest and easy child to raise - until the bottom fell out two years ago. In a matter of a days she suddenly and frighteningly developed Sydenham's chorea, tics, mutism, mood swings, joint pain and swelling. aversions, delusions, rage and host of other heart-breaking symptoms. It has been a tremendously challenging road and so as an unwilling seasoned veteran here is the advice I am giving to anyone who thinks their child has PANDAS, PANS, LYME or any other unusual/frustrating unnamed condition. 1. Do NOT waste time. The first time you see symptoms that do not clear up permanently after a round of antibiotics, get real help. Any of the symptoms I have described indicate your child has neurological inflammation. For the majority of kids, this could mean your child has cross-reacting antibodies, that are attacking your child's healthy tissues. For many kids this could involve brain, heart or joint problems so you absolutely need to rule out any potential damage, especially heart involvement (this was the one potential result our daughter had). The longer you go, the more damage that can result and the harder it will be to treat. This means: 2. Your child has a PHYSICAL disease with psychiatric symptoms resulting from inflammation so you need the right specialists. If your child has recurrent or ongoing flares after antibiotic treatment, and you are only seeing a psychiatrist or PANDAS doctor who has not done a full spectrum of physical diagnostics (MRI, heart ultrasound, tests for Lyme, allergies, inflammatory markers, titers, etc.) then ask your pediatrician for a pediatric neurologist referral. Remember this is PHYSICAL. I can't emphasize this enough: If you can, go see a neurologist and an immunologist. 3. It's not in a name, so don't get stuck with a label. I know we all want that relief/satisfaction of saying my child has "PANDAS" or some other condition, but that can predispose physicians to start treating before a real diagnosis and plan is put forth. For example, we ran off immediately to USF for PANDAS evaluation, at which they gave us some surveys, talked to us and then tossed us some antibiotics with a diagnosis of PANDAS. Not one physical diagnostic test was done and we were foolish to go along with that. In time, they would have ramped up to IVIG, etc....but I would never have known that my daughter could have had heart damage. For those wanting a name., honestly, ( For the math-minded I think we are talking about a spectrum of autoimmune diseases that could be plotted on a coordinate plane of X and symptoms on Y, to find that our kids are scattered all over the place) I think there are as many names for these diseases as there are kids. Just call it, "Insert your child's name here" disease. I am kidding - but also not. The many presentations of these diseases explain why they sound akin to others (like Lupus) and yet different when we talk to each other here. Also, never mention diagnosis to insurance providers. Many are looking for reasons to reject claims so let your doctors and insurance companies play the coding game. 4. Take meticulous notes regarding symptoms.Take pictures and video even at bad times. Trust me, you will forget. Look for subtle things like handwriting and appetite changes, sleeping changes, expression of unusual ideas, reduced speech. When first met our neurologist, I came in not with a disease name but a table of symptoms, date of onset, severity and frequency. I wanted them to diagnose without predisposition. 5. Don't worry about the bandaids - yet. I know a lot of us sweat everything from glutens, to certain amino acids to micronutrients. Until you rule out allergies, known genetic deficiencies....don't lie awake at night and wonder whether or not you are missing some esoteric piece of the puzzle. Feed your child well, make sure they are getting plenty of vitamin D (low is usually indicative of a chronic inflammatory process), and as many nutrients as they can from real food. You are a good parent, and while the little things will help along with a healthy lifestyle, there is no magic pill. Proper diagnostics will eliminate a lot of concern about allergies and root causes so you don't waste a fortune in time and money trying this and that. We are desperate and vulnerable so read everything with a critical eye. 6. Trust your gut and assert yourself. I went to FOUR doctors and had three ER visits with my daughter, shaking my head and respectfully telling them we were moving on when they told me she was probably just depressed. WRONG. (Tangents: I think our world, present and past is full of kids who are under-diagnosed for physical problems, and there is NO difference between mental health and health. It's just health). 7. Your child is not your child. There is no way that sweet baby of yours would ever do the things he/she is doing if he/she was healthy. Easier said than done - but do not take it personally. That said, reasonable consequences apply. If your child is having severe outbursts, you have to remind yourself: THIS IS THE DISEASE. Say it like a mantra if you have to. 8. Get healthy and fit. I have had to care for my daughter for two years 24/7. Most of you will not be like that. It's going to try your body, mind and spirit. It's going to be hard so you need to be battle prepared. At times, you are going to be scared, angry, tired, frustrated and lonely so you are going to need to be at your best like no other time in your life. Get sleep and don't worry if there are fingerprints on the appliances and the car needs vacuuming. My family has learned that no matter what, I am taking an hour a day to run or surf. 9. Get brave and tough.. People closest to you are going to hurt your feelings, and give you unwanted advice. Head them off at the pass and tell them that you are on top of all the research and protocols (you need to be), that this is going to be stressful, that you are so grateful for their support, but that the things you can't have them do include _______. For me, it was advice on how to parent...like when my daughter would be defiant, or when I chose to keep her out of the public eye when her tics and chorea were severe. Doing that up front will save all of you a lot of misunderstandings down the road. The "Loving but Uninformed" in your life will give you some bizarre advice at times; take it in the spirit in which they meant it. At the same time, get soft. For me, this meant learning to accept help from other people. I have always prided myself in being able to be self-reliant, being able to do it all, but with this spectrum of disease - forget it. I have learned that letting people help is not a sign of weakness, but an acceptance of kindness that can really make a difference. The people around you who really care want to help. Let them. 10. Slow down the clock. You aren't going to get it all done. At times you are going to be late to school. Sometimes you won't get to a place at all. You might even miss a major life event like a close friend's wedding, or as it is in my case...your chid might even miss a year of school. It will work out. 11. Read it all, get informed, stay on top of it...and then walk away at times. You cannot live and breathe this everyday without becoming obsessed in an unhealthy way. My daughter loathes it that I pick up on every tic, and my husband got tired of my talking through the study results in the third standard deviation for the sample size of 12 for the methylation of a certain gene expression (whoa, sexy AND romantic) when we crawled into bed at night. (The main reason I come and go from this website .) 12. Go out at a minimum of twice a month for the evening. The only rule: Thou shall not talk about thy child or thy child's disease. Also keep something out there a month or two away to look forward to...beach, trip to parents, buying a new sofa, camping trip. Finally, don't forget the healthy siblings and your SO. As much of a nut as I am about healthy eating, sometimes a little love and acknowledgement is as easy as a box of walnut brownies that can be mixed and tossed in the oven in two minutes...with a PostIt note alongside. After two years of IVIG, Cellcept, Rixtuximab and Cytoxan, we are finally knocking down the world's most persistent immune system and our daughter is slowly getting better. Chorea is gone, tics gone, OCD gone, moods better, tremors gone, ataxia gone, mutism gone, catatonia gone, sleep patterns good, aversions gone, eating well, engaging with the family, smiling, laughing and has some quality of life. Long story short: Treat physically and if a child like ours (who is probably one of a handful of the most profound expressions ever on this disease spectrum) can get fully back on the happy and healthy track - yours will too.
    2 points
  22. Fiddlegrl -- Welcome to the forum, though I'm sorry for all you've been through and the issues you're still fighting. I will say that I've been with this forum for many years now...first during my DS's illness and healing, and then somewhat less frequently for the last few years, checking in to follow up on old friends and any new research, and to chime in when something resonates with my experience. Pretty much ALL of the symptoms you've described, unfortunately, have been discussed here as part of the PANs/PANDAs continuum. It stinks. I don't have any practical experience with respect to Lyme and its co-infections; my DS's syndrome was clearly strep-related, though seasonal allergies exacerbated inflammation and the immune response for a number of years, once the PANDAs had kicked into high gear. Like you, though, we believe his behavioral issues were tied to atypical strep infections potentially as young as 3 years of age, though certainly by the age of 6 when he was officially given an OCD diagnosis. But he never tested positive (via swab and culture) for strep at the time, and no local doctors would give us the time of day regarding PANDAs then, either, so he went without any real treatment until he hit 12. That's when the PANDAs brought him to an absolutely non-functional state, the research coming out of NIMH, Columbia and Dr. Cunningham had progressed, and we were finally able to talk someone into an antibiotic trial. It was a long road, but the rest, as they say, is now thankfully pretty much history. As a result of our experience, though, I do think it likely that PANDAS/PANs sufferers who are at a more advanced age before receiving immune and/or anti-inflammatory therapies may have a harder road with respect to healing and "bouncing back;" not sure if that's because the brain "wiring" has matured more in the interim, or if the chronic inflammatory and auto-immune responses in the body are somehow more entrenched and therefore harder to reverse. In the end, it took my DS about 5 years in total to return to pretty much full functionality, and that was with auto-immune, therapeutic and psychiatric interventions all thrown into the mix. He continues to contend with some OCD and situational anxiety now and again, and I'm not convinced that this will ever disappear completely. But those issues remain at manageable levels (knock on wood), and he's happy and healthy and constructive and functional. Pretty much all we could ask for, after what he went through. I'm not sure how to advise you on any possible next steps, really, except to suggest that perhaps exploring some additional genetic markers and methylation issues might help you for the long term? You mentioned genetic testing for porphyria, but did you get a full work-up? A search here on the forum for "methylation" and "mutations" will lead you to multiple discussions regarding the methylation cycle and how genetic testing has helped point some families to a regimen of supplements and/or medications that proved to be more effective for them in light of various mutations and genetic predispositions. Perhaps that's worth a try? Finding a well-versed LLMD and/or integrative physician who could be your partner in working through these issues would be a bonus. Your post was very well-written, so I'm picturing an intelligent, capable and fairly "together" young woman, so I sincerely hope you're finding moments of joy and contentment in your everyday life, despite this tremendous burden. All the best to you!
    2 points
  23. Is this happening basically all the time, Swetha? (Yes, we have heard of all these types of tics.) I'm sure it must be very distressing for you. I'm so sorry to read about it. Are you in India? I'm sending an email note to you. Also, to jump back -- no, meat is not required to heal a tic disorder. As a general concept, a balanced vegetarian diet is fine.
    1 point
  24. Sheila, thank you so much for your suggestions and the resources you have provided. We removed eggs from her diet for two months over the summer, it did not change anything, we also went gluten free a few years ago and it did not have any effect either. I will provide an update in a few weeks if there are any changes for the better, hopefully.
    1 point
  25. Hi Irene123, I'm so sorry you and your daughter have been dealing with this for five+ years. I agree it would make sense to consult an experienced naturopath. I'll share just a couple of thoughts. I saw your post on PANS (where you said you posted in error and switched to this forum). You mentioned "We don't really use any scented things except for her deodorant that has some lavender smell and Dove shampoo/bodywash. . . . When we notice something triggers tics, we try to avoid like hairspray and pool chlorine." It's really good that you have been able to observe that some chemicals are triggering tics and you avoid them. Usually when someone is chemically sensitive, the more you can avoid potentially troublesome items, the better. Also, when something is used frequently, like a body wash or shampoo, it can be hard to know if it is having a negative effect. That's in contrast to getting in a swimming pool and seeing that the pool chemical increased ticcing. I would suggest you try to go unscented with everything in the home, from laundry detergent to dishwasher soap, to personal products. And also use natural cleaning products, like those from 7th Generation. And avoid plug-ins, fabric softener liquid or sheets, etc. Also, when it comes to diet, it is possible that she is eating something every day that she is sensitive to. You mentioned eggs and whole wheat, which are common culprits for people with food sensitivities. A naturopath should be able to help identify them or advise you. One test that is often recommended is from Great Plains Laboratory, which has just recently changed it's name to Mosaic Diagnostics. https://mosaicdx.com/resource/great-plains-lab-is-now-mosaic-diagnostics/ This test might be very helpful, but needs to be ordered through a practitioner, like a naturopath or a doctor. https://mosaicdx.com/test/ige-food-allergy-test/ (If you already looked into food reactions like that, sorry, I missed it.!) I did see that your daughter has a limited diet because she likes it that way. I know change is difficult, but if she is eating something that is causing a reaction, it's important to address that. I hope you will let us know how things are going, especially with the start of the school year. Wishing you the best!!
    1 point
  26. @Chemarthis is very interesting reading and hopefully a bit of a break through for people in the future.
    1 point
  27. Chemar

    Tics while eating

    Yes, magnesium and B6 were also essential supplements for my son - we found the P-5-P form of B6 worked best.
    1 point
  28. My son is 19 years old now but looking back all these years, his tics/Tourette's started after several vaccinations. Is there a link and if so, is there one particular vaccination that has been correlated to Tourette's or Tics?
    1 point
  29. Hey Chemar! Agreed. I think every person probably has different things that the body views negatively. Yes, she doesn't do well on organic produce. She grew up on strictly organic produce. Interestingly, she would often seem to do well with produce that wasn't organic at something like a wedding reception. I sometimes wonder if it's because organic is often more ripe (started the fermentation process). But, we still notice the beginning of negative affects (irritability) with eating fresh picked fruit from our trees. I know we don't have everything figured out. Perhaps she can handle certain produce, maybe cooked produce, etc..., but we are extremely grateful that God has given us direction to figure out enough for her to be tic free.
    1 point
  30. So we have been back from our vacation for a couple of days. During our trip the tics (coughing, neck cracking) were very minimal. If you weren’t aware, you wouldn’t have noticed. I was feeling hopeful. We continued with gluten free food on the road for the most part and sugar free and all the vitamins (fish oil, b, multi, and magnesium, and we traveled with his new dust mite free pillow-his blood test came back with dust mite allergy. He had PLENTY os sunshine and lots and fun and running around outside. However, since we have been back home, the neck cracking has become way more pronounced. He stretches his neck back in order to crack it and then sometimes also turns it to the side to crack. The cracking is often loud. Yesterday, he became frustrated and cried because in doing these moves, he said it wouldn’t crack and that was bothering him. I massaged his neck with magnesium lotion which he said made him feel better, but he continued to turn his neck to try to crack it. I put on some “past tense” roll oil on his neck (terra oil which is supposed to relieve tension), he also said that helped. He had a friend over later in the day, so the cracking was minimized, but came back later. This morning when he woke up, we all piled in the big bed together and cuddled. He started rolling his neck again, and he said, “Mommy, the cracks are more quiet today.” I asked of that bothered him and he said it did. I tried to ask him about what he felt before cracking his neck, and he said it made him feel comfortable. I asked if it was tense…but he didn’t really understand what I meant. He said, “Why do you think I crack my neck?” I told him it might just be a little tic and nothing to worry and he will probably outgrow it. Otherwise, we don’t talk about it or mention it. Has anyone else experienced this neck cracking tic? Is it possible it will fo away? What did you find helped with this tic? We see a neurologist Monday. Thanks for continued guidance and information.
    1 point
  31. Chemar

    Tinted lenses

    There is also a lot of good info on this on the Irlen website https://irlen.com/who-we-help/
    1 point
  32. Here comes an other update. I started following tics on an excellent sheet that helps me figure out progress of tics and when they emerge and when they get out of the picture. At the very first 2 months after 'new' noticeable tics kicked in we had some ups and downs however they never got very bad or to a point that would effect her social life. At the 8th week a steady decline started and leg/arm jerking slowly decreased in intensity and frequency and now gone. However during the course a few more tics came and go. We had some head nodding that was very infrequent for 5 weeks , we had a jaw opening tics that was also very infrequent for 8 weeks , a hip related tic that was frequent when walking but went away in a few weeks. Interestingly some long standing tics are gone now too , like broadening nostrils and nose twitching (not sure this was tics or related to allergic rhinitis) are either gone or very very infrequent that I do not notice. On the other hand an abdomen tic (that is pretty easy to mistaken for a breathing tic ) is back. It's not frequent and very hard to recognize externally so that does not worry me as much. EMTICS have published several papers , so if you've not read them those can be good resources. We are not using any supplements other then the very usual stuff. We are still focused on 'positive stress' , less TV/Phone'Tablet time , more physical activity. I think that being confident really helps her a lot and at her age part of the confidence comes from her physical capabilities, so I feel like gymnastics really help her a lot.
    1 point
  33. mcbull

    New Hope New Year

    Having raised a kid now to college with constant PANDAS struggles, I am convinced immune health is key. We had a period of antibiotics and then tonsillectomy which seemed to provide some relief. But continue to manage separation issues and particular obsessions. Currently using prozac and pretty aggressive CBT (ERP). Having recently overcome significant digestive issues, I am convinced the key to strong immunity is a clean and healthy gut. My kid was exposed to antibiotics at birth, had chronic constipation as a toddler, and was OCD symptomatic at age 3-4. We have a sibling with anxiety and narcolepsy, another with ADD/ADHD, we had some of these mild tics off and on. I'm sure they are related. I recognize the parental panic. The kids need examples of dealing calmly with these issues. All we can do is find someone good to work with and continue to try the next thing.
    1 point
  34. MaryAngela

    Mycoplasma results

    My DS responded very well to Clarithromycin after showing high Mycoplasma titers. It’s common for kids to get yeast issues from antibiotics even while taking probiotics, so it’s important they have the probiotic 2 or 3 times a day. Be sure to space the probiotic at least 2 hours away from antibiotic. I’ve used Gutpro (expensive) and Jarrow (reasonable). I wouldn’t skimp and use a generic grocery store or drug store brand. Yeast can cause issues itself. I also give my DS a yeast control supplement, especially while on abx, and for a few weeks after. We’ve used Candicid Forte and OrthoFlora yeast support (Protocol for Life Balance). I’m sure Whole Foods also sells yeast control supplements. I prayer that your daughter finally gets some relief from the abx. Keep us posted.
    1 point
  35. Just do remember that Essential Oils are concentrated and not all brands can be applied to the skin without use of a carrier oil. When used neat, one drop is totally enough! and even then it depends on the individual. Some people cannot tolerate all oils. ie they will react ok with one and very negatively with another. My son has always been that way. Just because something is natural doesn't always mean it doesn't have a potential for reactivity. We learned that the hard way and with much trial and error. It's the same with supplements....they are excellent and beneficial - but different people have different reactions.
    1 point
  36. kakrpa

    Need to vent

    I'm so sorry to hear of what your daughter and you all are going through - it sounds tough and incredibly frustrating. I won't say you're doing anything wrong as I think we are all doing the best we can given the circumstances. I truly feel for your daughter as I have dealt with those horrible OCD thoughts myself - I was dx PANS almost 5 yrs ago (young adult onset w severe anxiety that immediately took hold as the pureOCD subtype). It wasn't strep that triggered it for me either (my guess is it was brought on by the pneumonia I battled immediately before this illness). While I would typically second anyone refusing psych medications, I will tell you that I would not have made it to today without their help along w the help of a great psychiatrist. I guess I'm saying please don't shut the door on the potential for her to find some relief in even just one medicine, if it gets to that point. I know there are potential risks and benefits to each approach, just please keep an open mind. Have you heard of TRS by Coseva, before? I just placed an order this morning and would like hear from anyone who has tried this. If you haven't heard of it nor tried it give it a search. It's premise is interesting and I'm curious to see if it will help me. Btw, I am in no way advocating nor endorsing. Wishing you and your daughter the best. Please give her extra hugs as what she needs most right now is love and acceptance, and to know those thoughts are not HER THOUGHTS, but rather manifestations of the illness itself. They do not define her. She's likely very scared inside - it's hard to understand what's going on (even for an adult, let alone a child). (((Hugs)))
    1 point
  37. Sheila

    Help form China

    Hi Jasmina, Your English is very good and we were happy to hear from you! It is good to learn that you have found a way to get help for your son. You have made some good starts. I'm sorry not to be able to give you suggestions on amounts of supplements for detox but can say that the amount you are giving of B6 is quite low, nothing to be concerned about; (you can check with your doctor about using more). Some people need to take it with food to avoid stomach upset. In addition to the approaches you are using I wanted to mention that it is important to avoid potential triggers that may be affecting him. Triggers include diet and also things in the environment. We have a book, Stop Your Tics by Learning What Trigger Them -- and it was just translated into Chinese. The concept is that if there is something aggravating his system, it is best if it can be avoided and this will also help other approaches be more beneficial. The publisher gave me these two links for the book in case you are interested. I don't know how it works with you being in China and trying to order from Taiwan, but I hope this could be of some help to you (please let us know if you decide to do it): FROM THE PUBLISHER: You could find the complex Chinese edition on our official website:https://www.wunan.com.tw/bookdetail?NO=14327 Or on Books.com.tw:https://www.books.com.tw/products/0010820544 (Books.com.tw is the biggest online bookstore in Taiwan) We are looking forward to hearing back from you, Jasmina and hope you can find all the answers your son needs, Sheila
    1 point
  38. We did not see dramatic improvement for my DS 14, until he was put on the encephalitis protocol for IVIG, which is monthly HD. He has had 5 so far. This was started after limited success with weekly LD IVIG. He has shown lasting improvement with each treatment. Tics gone, OCD 90% gone. He still has anxiety, focus issues and sound sensitivity. We are hoping for some relief from those symptoms with future treatments.
    1 point
  39. Try posting at this PANDAS group on facebook. It is more active so you will get more replies. https://www.facebook.com/groups/189241844607935/
    1 point
  40. Hitman3161

    IVIG at 25

    Thanks guys for your response. This is an unnerving time for me. Although, after the operation I was able to achieve complete symptomatic remission for 3-4 months and enjoyed a good period of health. I have responded positively to every treatment intervention so far. Positive response to abx, tonsillectomy etc. I understand that it may not work at my age, I have had a lot of social stress to deal with as well which has probably exacerbated the symptoms - I’ve dealt with social isolation for many years. I am going to trust my gut and go ahead with the treatment, I’ll keep you posted and updated for the benefit of others - as I’ll probably be one of the oldest to receive treatment and success would be highly reassuring for the rest of us adults. Thanks so much for your support. fingers crossed 🤞
    1 point
  41. MaryAngela

    Extreme behavior

    Wombat140– I am new to this forum, but have read a few of your posts. Your suffering reminds me of my son’s suffering. My son is rarely open to talking about his compulsions, but after dealing with his OCD for years, I’ve determined that all of his rages were due to his OCD being “blown”. Telling him to quiet down only makes the situation worse. The consequence does not matter, even if it involves a neighbor calling the police. Part of my son’s OCD was that he would need me or my husband to do something, but his OCD would not allow him to tell us what it was. For example, when triggered, he would need to change his clothes, then leave our apartment building. I would need to hold the door open in a certain way, but he couldn’t tell me how. He would change his clothes and go in and out of the building hundreds of times a day. One night he repeated this compulsion continously from 7 pm until 7am. He would change his clothes and I would walk around the block with him. It didn’t matter that it was in the middle of winter. I truly didn’t think we would live through this. My son will tell me that he is not being manipulative. The way I see it is that his OCD is manipulating him, which sometimes involves needing others to behave a certain way. He is not choosing to have these thoughts. My son is 80-90% better, since IVIG treatments, which started this past November. I hope you find relief soon.
    1 point
  42. That low-grade fever and red throat seems like a clue that what he could be fighting caused the flare - if the timing makes sense. A couple of days (and possibly longer) before those fever/throat symptoms could still explain a flare then.
    1 point
  43. I am sorry to hear about your troubles and wish your daughter a speedy recovery. Unfortunately, vaccines can cause serious injuries especially the HPV. There are many reported incidents regarding this vaccine. Definitely hold onto tightly to all medical records and if, unfortunately, your daughter might have some lasting injuries you should contact a lawyer and apply for compensation to the Vaccines Courts. Have the administrating doctor report this reaction to VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Effect Reporting System) as soon as possible. Hope you might find any other solution to help you.
    1 point
  44. I wonder whether one of the docs could consult Dr. Najjar to rule that set of concerns out. When he spoke at the beginning of the month at the Common Threads conference it was clear that ultimately, like pans, pandas some cases of encephalitis are ultimately clinical diagnoses like PANS/PANDAS. He explained that in a not insignificant number of cases, antibodies don't get elevated and one must take the entire clinical picture into account. I am wishing you all the best.
    1 point
  45. Lwei66

    7 year old tics

    Hi Hope36 How is your daughter now? I am new here because my 8 yr-old son developed Tics about 1 1/2 months ago. On the worst days, he was ticcing every second. As a dad, I worry so much with tons of anxiety myself. I gave my son Fish Oil and some Cod Liver Oil. We also give my son herbal medicine. So far, the situation has improved some what. Tics frequency improved from every second to 2 or 3 tics a minute. Sometimes we see 10 minute tic free intervals. Following Dr. DeMare's book on Natural treatment for TS and tics, I am now doing detective work to figure out the triggers for my son's tics. I do believe that my son's tics was epigenetic and brought onset by environmental/dietary triggers. It will take time to slowly identify the triggers and then hope that there is ways to address each of the triggers. Hope that your daughter's situation has improved.
    1 point
  46. I am an adult female. I was never diagnosed with any mental illness as a child, as my parents addressed any psychological issues as solely behavioral problems to be disciplined. That being said, I suffered from very severe OCD symptoms that (I suspect) **might have been a result of PANDAS. [As this was never diagnosed nor treated, it is purely personal seculation based on the symptomology and relative timeline of exposure to streptococcus- I also share other speculations as to possible causes for the disorder, though mostly suspect the former.] I can say that for myself; the OCD began to dissipate very significantly after puberty and continued to do so over the years. I have no significant nor any life debilitating symptoms remaining of OCD whatsoever. The most debilitating and severe period of OCD that I had was between the ages of about (I think) 7-12. However, the habitual thought patterns that I had developed in my brain during that time (mind you with no counseling/medication or understanding of it as a disorder whatsoever) did take a significant amount of years to fully recover; therein many behaviors still remained. I say this because I do believe that it is highly possible that the neurophysiological OCD had in fact been mostly if not wholly eradicated during the pubescent period in which I would had been experiencing many hormonal and chemical changes in the brain possibly countering or overwhelming some others. (Again- this is much personal speculation.) Nonetheless, because OCD is what it is, I find it impossible to consider these behaviors would disappear at the same time. Gradually they did go away. I imagine then on came bigger problems of being a teenager and every little bit by bit the tics and compulsions and obsessions did dissipate. I was VERY secretive of rituals (tapping/counting/hoarding/maaany others) and did them in a way not to be seen. Because of this and that whatever my parents might had known was never pronounced to me as a "mental disorder", I credit my ignorance to having an actual illness in a way to having had allowed me to recover; as there was no stigma or added obsession (i was highly obsessed with everything) that I was handicapped with a psychological ailment. In a way, the denial around me helped. This is NOT to diminish that as a whole, however I suffered far more severely because of it. But it is worth noting i think that sometimes less attention may help with recovery. Overall of course, a child needs their mother so much, and for one with ocd- they really need their mom. I love my parents who did just as they felt best, but during that time (that to this day I remember SO well as being so truly horrifying for me), I didn't have that. I was so extremely confused, shameful, scared, and exhausted. And so incredibly isolated. I am so grateful pediatric illnessness like these are finally recognized and kids now can have amazing mothers like you who are on their side of the struggle with them rather than at the other end of it. No child should have to feel so shamed, scared, and alone. Illness, treatments, recoveries and even regressions are just as any other experiences and trials of life. They are part of each individuals journey into becoming the person they are meant to be. And children are (be them healthy/disabled/'normal'..whatever) absolutely beautiful and perfect every step of the way. This is what I wish my mother would had said to me. So i could have understood that I'm not my illness, but my strength to battle this is part of what makes me so incredible and builds my character into the fantastic person I am to become. (Of course- this and also 'lets see a psychiatrist and get treatment'), but all the same Sorry about the tangent! I came about writing this commenr ( now... memoir) in searching this subject in Google just now out of random curiosity while reflecting upon my past. When I saw your q, I felt I just had to respond with hope because my google search q was: "my pandas ocd gone after puberty". When I read this, I was so inspired by you and what you are doing for your child. Asking these questions, treating her, and being in the fight along side with her. I joined just so I could write this to you to thank you for what you are doing for her and to send the hope to u both that it absolutely goes away. I can only imagine how exhausting and challenging it could be for a parent. But can also know first hand how horrible it is to have the illness, and to go it alone as a kid is beyond awful. So that's it, really. BLESS you mom for taking care of your girl and it absolutely does get better, as I feel that indeed post pubescence changed everything. So yes- hope is there and she WILL recover. I had a fantastic time by high school being ocd free (mind you tendencies there but I feel this is a bit of personal brain wiring and takes lots of time and work . It was NOT like it was before puberty). Keep being the AMAZING kick mom you are. I'm so SO happy she has you. Just needed to respond. [[**As a side note: in respect to the other comment made by a parent in which i felt some ocd kids might be getting stigmatized by the illness and certain behaviors are being either dismissed or over addressed as psych symptoms when in fact they are either one of 2 things: an unrelated call for help or personal struggle environmentally that isn't to do with ocd, or otherwise just a very healthy response to stresses of puberty. I wanted to throw out the fact that nearly every pubescent child/young adult/teen are often incomprehensibly 'nuts by nature' too! Please consider it's a crazy time for them (thier brains, bodies, self identy, sense of life..) and the healthiest girl during puberty can be a total weirdo obsessive anxious nightmare of a kid too I wouldnt had wanted my parents to say to me it was the 'ocd' every time I acted out (either by way of empathizing/diminishing/ reprimanding or whatever) and I could be horrid at times. I fear it would had kept the obsession for me longer and I would had never believed I would be rid of it. . Maybe i would had even used it as an excuse to get away with bad behavior which would had also drawn self identity to ocd and inhibited recovery . A BIG part of breaking this very strong mental lock is to forget it whenever possible. And it is VERY hard to do, but a beautiful thing when it happens. And each instance builds into healing. Sometimes it is rare and fleeting. Sometimes it is overwhelmed by something else negative (like even some nutty teen drama being created). I would just hate a reminder if it wasn't on my brain already. So i say, if they are being teen brats and it is not 100% textbook symptomatic of OCD, then dont call them out on having a psychological illness, call them out for being brats! (Just my opinion)]]. Good luck to you and your amazing kid. You're really a hero to me. Truly. Much love.
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  47. I'm not sure how to ask "what would be approved?", and get any info beyond what is listed in their IG clinical guideline document. That doesn't even list anti-NDMAR encephalitis -- so it's so out of date. But you're right; if it were a change in rationale, it wouldn't sound forthright. If I were to pursue the deficiency angle, I think I'd want to expand the argument and state what is the truth, i.e., that we're dealing with two problems. However ....The low dose and high dose seem to have opposite effects -- the low dose is immune-stimulatory, and the high dose immune-regulatory. So I'd be wary of making things worse by giving DS the immune-stimulatory dose. But... what if insurance were to approve say 500mg/kg IVIG product for the IgG deficiency, and my doctor prescribed 1.5 g/kg, would insurance pay for the administration and 1/3 of the Ig product, or nothing? I think I've read of someone on this site whose kid had had LD 2x, which didn't help, then the third time the MD prescribed HD and it did help a lot. So i hope the answer is the former.
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  48. Full immune panel (IgG, IgA, etc.), ASO (strep), anti dnase B (longer-term strep titer). I think methylation issues are a VERY worthwhile trail of exploration for someone your age dealing with these issues, and it appears from your signature line that you done that. So none of the interventions you're trying for the mutations has been effective? Wombat, I don't want to discourage you from exploring every available avenue, but as the mom of a now 18-year-old who was first diagnosed with OCD at age 6, didn't get a PANDAS diagnosis until age 12, responded very well to abx (brought him back from a totally dysfunctional brink), but continues to deal with some ongoing OCD and anxiety issues (though manageable) . . . I just want to encourage you to perhaps not get hung up on the testing and interventions tied to traditional PANDAS/PANs (rapid onset, pre-pubescent expression, abx, IVIG, etc.) and perhaps lean toward more "lifestyle" type interventions that will hopefully help make life more functional, more fun, and help you push away more of the OCD that interferes with your everyday life. If you do yet have underlying infection, be it lyme or strep, etc., then abx, IVIG, etc. will likely help you to an extent. (How long were the course of abx you've tried in the past? Can you get a longer-term prescription for them and journal your behavior patterns for a period of months? We found that, after the initial "burst" of palpable benefits, abx tended to yield more subtle improvements over time . . . perhaps unnoticeable to a majority of people, but by reading back through our journaling of things our DS used to do but didn't need to do anymore, or things he'd given up to the King OCD but had begun to resume as he improved). But just from our experience, having contended with OCD for as many years as you have, I would not want to lead you to believe that abx or IVIG will be a panacea -- a cure-all. And if either of them is to be effective, IMHO, given your age and the term of your dealing with this condition, I'd wager that that you would need a longer and/or more repetitive course of these medical interventions than might be the case for a younger, more recently diagnosed case (our DS took abx for about 2 years). Additionally, I would suggest dietary, supplements, ERP/CBT and perhaps even some prescription medications to help you gain more leverage over the OCD, even if only as temporary measures. In the end, the PANDAs tests and interventions turned our DS's life around, but even so, he continues to need supports. Whether that's because he was older and the anxiety/OCD was more entrenched by the time we determined the immune condition, or if it's because it's genetically part of who he is and the PANDAS just made it worse, I can't tell you. But I've made my peace with throwing everything at this monster that's at our disposal, and that methodology, in the end, has given my DS his life back. Keep fighting, keep searching and never say never! All the best to you!
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  49. Welcome to the forum, but sorry your family has been forced to deal with PANDAS/PANs. As you do some reading here, you'll find that our stories, including treatment protocols, can vary widely. What does seem to be a thru-line to some extent, however, are commonalities among behaviors that we see in our kids when they're sick. There's some commonality in response to various medications and supplements, too, but not always. Time frames vary dramatically, also; I have my suspicions that this variance has to do with age at diagnosis, length of time the child was suffering due to PANDAS/PANs but went incorrectly diagnosed prior to diagnosis and treatment, and similar temporal differences. My DS was diagnosed with "regular OCD" at age 6 and went through a second "flare" or exacerbation at about 7.5 years. We inquired about PANDAS with ped, therapist, and ultimately a psych as well but were told it wasn't "real," and since our DS was classically asymptomatic for strep, we couldn't demonstrate a link, either. So we treated with therapy and finally an SSRI (Lexapro) until he turned 12. At 12, he completely flipped out. Went from being fully functional, funny, social, academically gifted, to a basket case. Couldn't read, sleep, play, eat. Psych kept switching up psych meds . . . different doses, different formulas. Nothing worked, and he just got worse. "Saving Sammy" and subsequent email conversations with its author, Beth Maloney, turned our attention back to PANDAS/PANS, particularly since Sammy was classically asymptomatic also. Ultimately, we were able to prove some atypical immune response through blood tests, and our ped was, gratefully, willing to give us an abx trial. Based on Sammy's protocol and our DS's similarity to Sammy in terms of age, behavior set, etc., we began with Augmentin XR, 1,000 mg., twice daily. When I found this forum and connected with a number of other families and great minds who were deep into the latest research, helping their own families and others, too, we began to explore other supplements that could assist DS with respect to immune balance and behavior; we also found a PANDAS-literate psych and reduced his SSRI dose and changed the med, as well, to Zoloft. We looked into IVIG but did not pursue it for a number of reasons, not the least of which was DS was so positively responsive to abx, we didn't entirely see the need for another, more expensive intervention. DS was on the XR for nearly 2 years; we slowly weaned him off the last 4 months or so. He also continued on Zoloft and certain supplements we found seemed to help him on an ongoing basis: NAC, B6, zinc, quercitin, omegas and magnesium. We also kept him on probiotics (sach b. and a mixed flora) during the abx and for quite some time afterward. ERP therapy was also his constant companion, twice each week for the first year or so following his PANDAS dx, and then edging off slowly as we saw him gaining more traction over the OCD, and as we became more and more literate as parents in terms of helping him beat back the OCD at home, rather than accommodating it. He's now 17 and I consider him a success story. He can now maintain his health -- mental and physical -- even when exposed to strep. He's been off abx for nearly 3 years, though he continues on a low-dose SSRI. I've found a compounding vitamin supplier and have been able to order a custom blend multivitamin for him that contains the things we know help, and leaves out the components we've seen can have negative impacts for him. He is back to his functional self -- funny, fun, bright, in AP and honors classes in his senior year in high school, has friends, etc. He still contends with some OCD; whether or not that's because he was dealing with that for 6 years before we were successful in getting PANDAS intervention I can't say for sure, but that's what I suspect. His brain was being wired those 6 years, so undoing that will likely continue to take some time. I wish you all the best, and from our experience I will offer two key perspectives: 1) time is an important component in the healing process; and 2) don't ever give up!
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