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can a strep carrier be cured of strep


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#1 mrigsby

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 01:47 AM

The ENT is sending us to an infectious disease specialist. The ENT told me that he suspected that my son was a carrier. I said if he's a carrier, we can still get rid of it right? ANd he said not necessarily! Then he told me that the infectious disease specialist would be able to do more in dept testing and tell me more. We don't see the infectious disease specialist until Feb. 9th. I have been trying to read up on carriers. Everything I have found, basically says that doctors don't like to treat kids that are asymptomatic that are carriers. So, my question is, can a strep carrier be cured of strep? Buster I would love to hear from you! The ENT would not give my son antibiotics, he said he thought it best to wait and see what the infectious disease specialist decides. My son will be 13 in March. I am scared to death that they are going to cause him to have permanent damage.
On the plus side. Today makes 14 days he has been off antibiotics. His symptoms are all mild right now. And for the last 7 days, he has been able to go to sleep within 30 minutes after laying down. And he sleeps all night without talking, crying, moaning, and groaning. In the 6 years that we have been dealing with this, this is the first time he's ever slept through the night without all the caos. He is actually resting. That blows me away. Kind of scared me the first night, had to check on him a few times.LOL He is not ticking at present, however he still has OCD and emotional lability. Also his movements are still awkward and no improvement in writing. The school also let him go back to regular classes today instead of making him stay in behavioral disorder class. So I'm happy about all of that. For the first time in a long time things are looking up some. I would like to be prepared to meet with this infectios disease specialist, so any advice is greatly needed. I'm worried that they are not going to want to treat him because he will end up being a carrier. I know you shouldn't get your cart infront of you horse, but when it comes to my son I can't help myself.


#2 buster

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 02:47 AM

Hi mrigsby,

If I remember your case right, your son was on augmentin and is testing positive for strep within 4 days of completing the treatment. I suppose the very first question to ask is dosage -- was he taking augmentin once a day? twice a day? Was it 500mg 2x a day? Was it liquid or pill?

Have others in the household been tested for strep? I ask because one of the most common reasons someone doesn't clear is that there is another person carrying strep in the house. Also did you change toothbrushes (I'm presuming so). Another reason people don't clear is they just re-infect themselves. Does he tend to mouth something/chew on something? Okay, having now dispensed with all those items...

Your ENT is right that most times asymptomatic strep carriers are not treated by doctors -- partially because they aren't complaining and partially because it is sometimes hard to clear them. The usual reason given to clear an asymptomatic carrier is if someone else in the household who is immunocompromised.

Clearance is difficult because clearance actually requires the immune system to mount an attack. If your child is not mounting a response, then there's not a lot that just straight antbiotics can do. Have you had your son's IgG, IgM and IgA levels checked?

The "red book" recommends clindamycin if amoxicillin/augmentin aren't enough to clear infection. Clindamycin is a smelly, yucky liquid (luckily it comes in a pill form) and is not something you want to be on for any long term duration.

We have actually found that azithromycin worked for clearing our second daughter who turned out to be the carrier in our house. If I had a choice, I'd do azith before clindamycin as it is easier to take.

The speed with which your son tested positive is slightly odd. For about 5% of kids, they test positive within 10 days after treatment and typically have no ASO or Anti-DNAseB rise. Another 15% have "treatment failure" at 20 days post treatment --they have an ASO and AntiDNAse B rise but reculture positive at 20 days. Technically, only the 5% are considered carriers and only because there was no apparent immunologic response.

If you have good clinical observation that leads you to believe your son has PANDAS, then try to clear the carriage.

Buster



The ENT is sending us to an infectious disease specialist. The ENT told me that he suspected that my son was a carrier. I said if he's a carrier, we can still get rid of it right? ANd he said not necessarily! Then he told me that the infectious disease specialist would be able to do more in dept testing and tell me more. We don't see the infectious disease specialist until Feb. 9th. I have been trying to read up on carriers. Everything I have found, basically says that doctors don't like to treat kids that are asymptomatic that are carriers. So, my question is, can a strep carrier be cured of strep? Buster I would love to hear from you! The ENT would not give my son antibiotics, he said he thought it best to wait and see what the infectious disease specialist decides. My son will be 13 in March. I am scared to death that they are going to cause him to have permanent damage.
On the plus side. Today makes 14 days he has been off antibiotics. His symptoms are all mild right now. And for the last 7 days, he has been able to go to sleep within 30 minutes after laying down. And he sleeps all night without talking, crying, moaning, and groaning. In the 6 years that we have been dealing with this, this is the first time he's ever slept through the night without all the caos. He is actually resting. That blows me away. Kind of scared me the first night, had to check on him a few times.LOL He is not ticking at present, however he still has OCD and emotional lability. Also his movements are still awkward and no improvement in writing. The school also let him go back to regular classes today instead of making him stay in behavioral disorder class. So I'm happy about all of that. For the first time in a long time things are looking up some. I would like to be prepared to meet with this infectios disease specialist, so any advice is greatly needed. I'm worried that they are not going to want to treat him because he will end up being a carrier. I know you shouldn't get your cart infront of you horse, but when it comes to my son I can't help myself.



#3 smartyjones

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 07:39 AM

forgive if this is stupid. . . why is strep different from herpes in the sense that once you have the herpes virus, it lives in your system forever - at times rearing and causing problems and at other times existing symbiotically with your body and not causing problems. why isn't this the same for strep? i actually think it well could be but i know that is just my non-scientific, pea-brain thought.

#4 sf_mom

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:58 AM

Strep does reside in many individuals. A typical person needs to learn to manage ongoing levels of bacteria to remain healthy. Each person has about a pound of bacteria in them. If the immune system is compromised you will have issues managing bacteria. On way to improve a persons overall health is to improve the gut flora so bacteria's are not absorbed into the body. We are attacking that issue with high dose probiotics, Kefir, probiotic drinks, etc.

#5 GatsMom

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 11:21 AM

Strep does reside in many individuals. A typical person needs to learn to manage ongoing levels of bacteria to remain healthy. Each person has a about pound of bacteria in them. If the immune system is compromised you will have issues managing bacteria. On way to improve a persons overall health is to improve the gut flora so bacteria's are not absorbed into the body. We are attacking that issue with high dose probiotics, Kefir, probiotic drinks, etc.


I agree SF Mom. I believe our 3 backslides over 7 years can attributed to dips in his ability to keep something that I suspect he's long had brewing in check. 3 years ago, with our last episode, I started following the DAN! guidelines which really stress gut health. After drinking kefir everyday for 3 years, he was over it so I let up a bit. He also is tired of taking so many "vitamins" that "none of my friends have to take". He'd been so good for so long that I backed off some elements of the protocol. Several months later, boom, another episode. It's been tragic but it's certainly been educational. I'm thrilled to have Dr. T. in our corner and strongly suspect this kid will be a good responder to Augmentin (which we'll be starting today) based on his abx history but once this strep is beaten down, I will not be backing off my gut protocol again anytime soon and will always ramp up in fall.

SF Mom, could you please define high dose probiotics? We're back to the big gun, Klaire's Therabiotic Detox support but just one per day. I suspect that it needs to be a higher dose during a flare.

Thanks much,
Gat's mom.

#6 keithandelizabeth

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 11:43 AM

All of our family members are on 500 billion units of probiotics a day. Our nutritionist says that even at this high dose, it will take a few years to really heal their bodies. Our goal is that strep no longer becomes the enemy because their bodies become strong enough to live with different bacteria. Strep is all around us.

Elizabeth

#7 GatsMom

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 12:25 PM

All of our family members are on 500 billion units of probiotics a day. Our nutritionist says that even at this high dose, it will take a few years to really heal their bodies. Our goal is that strep no longer becomes the enemy because their bodies become strong enough to live with different bacteria. Strep is all around us.

Elizabeth


That's a ton of probiotic! I'd love to get that much into him as I completely agree with your sentiments. How do you manage to get it into your family if you are dosing abx, too? I'm told they should be given away from one another. Does anyone know how many hours away from abx probiotics should be given?

#8 faith

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 12:41 PM

give probiotics about 2 hours away from abx, so the abx doesn't kill the good bacteria too.

#9 keithandelizabeth

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 12:47 PM

We see a nutritionist and buy them from her and each capsule is 50 billions units, which is hard to find at the grocery store. This nutritionist has cured herself of an autoimmune disease as well as several other people I know who had auto-immune diseases. She feels that the typical 10-20 billion units would take 300 years to really heal a body. So, I give each of my kids 10 capsules split into 2 doses. I give the antibiotics in the morning before school and then a dose of probiotics after school and a dose at night.

Again, she feels that this is not a quick fix and we will be doing this for a couple of years.

I believe you can buy 50 billion unit capsules on-line from Klaire Labs. They are a highly reputable lab!

Elizabeth

#10 sf_mom

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 03:35 PM

Our family will be taking 500 Billion units of probiotics a day too. There is also a powder 1/4 teaspoon = 100 billion units which we will attempt in apple sauce or yogurt with our younger twins.

I'll let you know how it goes. Starting this next week, awaiting shipment.

-Wendy

#11 mrigsby

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 01:15 AM

He was taking 500mg 3x a day of Augmentin. I did change his tooth brush. So far I haven't been able to get anyone to do any blood work. ONly the throat swabs, which has tested positive each time. He is getting more hyper everyday he is off his antibiotics. His eyes were somewhat dialated today. And his OCD is starting to get worse. Feb. 9th seems like a long way away right now.






Hi mrigsby,

If I remember your case right, your son was on augmentin and is testing positive for strep within 4 days of completing the treatment. I suppose the very first question to ask is dosage -- was he taking augmentin once a day? twice a day? Was it 500mg 2x a day? Was it liquid or pill?

Have others in the household been tested for strep? I ask because one of the most common reasons someone doesn't clear is that there is another person carrying strep in the house. Also did you change toothbrushes (I'm presuming so). Another reason people don't clear is they just re-infect themselves. Does he tend to mouth something/chew on something? Okay, having now dispensed with all those items...

Your ENT is right that most times asymptomatic strep carriers are not treated by doctors -- partially because they aren't complaining and partially because it is sometimes hard to clear them. The usual reason given to clear an asymptomatic carrier is if someone else in the household who is immunocompromised.

Clearance is difficult because clearance actually requires the immune system to mount an attack. If your child is not mounting a response, then there's not a lot that just straight antbiotics can do. Have you had your son's IgG, IgM and IgA levels checked?

The "red book" recommends clindamycin if amoxicillin/augmentin aren't enough to clear infection. Clindamycin is a smelly, yucky liquid (luckily it comes in a pill form) and is not something you want to be on for any long term duration.

We have actually found that azithromycin worked for clearing our second daughter who turned out to be the carrier in our house. If I had a choice, I'd do azith before clindamycin as it is easier to take.

The speed with which your son tested positive is slightly odd. For about 5% of kids, they test positive within 10 days after treatment and typically have no ASO or Anti-DNAseB rise. Another 15% have "treatment failure" at 20 days post treatment --they have an ASO and AntiDNAse B rise but reculture positive at 20 days. Technically, only the 5% are considered carriers and only because there was no apparent immunologic response.

If you have good clinical observation that leads you to believe your son has PANDAS, then try to clear the carriage.

Buster



The ENT is sending us to an infectious disease specialist. The ENT told me that he suspected that my son was a carrier. I said if he's a carrier, we can still get rid of it right? ANd he said not necessarily! Then he told me that the infectious disease specialist would be able to do more in dept testing and tell me more. We don't see the infectious disease specialist until Feb. 9th. I have been trying to read up on carriers. Everything I have found, basically says that doctors don't like to treat kids that are asymptomatic that are carriers. So, my question is, can a strep carrier be cured of strep? Buster I would love to hear from you! The ENT would not give my son antibiotics, he said he thought it best to wait and see what the infectious disease specialist decides. My son will be 13 in March. I am scared to death that they are going to cause him to have permanent damage.
On the plus side. Today makes 14 days he has been off antibiotics. His symptoms are all mild right now. And for the last 7 days, he has been able to go to sleep within 30 minutes after laying down. And he sleeps all night without talking, crying, moaning, and groaning. In the 6 years that we have been dealing with this, this is the first time he's ever slept through the night without all the caos. He is actually resting. That blows me away. Kind of scared me the first night, had to check on him a few times.LOL He is not ticking at present, however he still has OCD and emotional lability. Also his movements are still awkward and no improvement in writing. The school also let him go back to regular classes today instead of making him stay in behavioral disorder class. So I'm happy about all of that. For the first time in a long time things are looking up some. I would like to be prepared to meet with this infectios disease specialist, so any advice is greatly needed. I'm worried that they are not going to want to treat him because he will end up being a carrier. I know you shouldn't get your cart infront of you horse, but when it comes to my son I can't help myself.






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