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Natural Treatments for Tics and Tourette's - A Patient and Family Guide


Our helpful guide is a #1 bestselling book on tics and Tourette's. This 365-page book explains how to treat tics using natural and alternative therapies, from nutritional, behavioral and counseling therapies, EEG biofeedback, and homeopathy to bodywork, energy medicine, and Chinese medicine. This Book offers advice from medical experts, a common tic triggers checklist, inspirational family stories, practical worksheets, and takeaway tips for the help that you need. Learn more


Stop Tics Today - Find the real causes to find the cures




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65 replies to this topic

#1 kim

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Posted 28 June 2005 - 06:48 PM

:) ***This thread contains notes taken by a parent/parents listening to BioChat. There is no guarantee as to the accuracy or content. Any information or treatments discussed are for informational purpose only. ALWAYS SEEK THE GUIDANCE OF QUALIFIED MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS*** :)



> Clear your calendars and get your questions ready!
>
> Tuesday June 28, 9:00pm EST
> Dr. William Shaw, Ph.D.
> Dr. Shaw obtained his doctorate in biochemistry, genetics, and
human
> physiology from the Medical University of South Carolina. He is
> certified in the fields of clinical chemistry and toxicology by the
> American Board of Clinical Chemistry. Dr. Shaw worked for six
years in
> nutritional biochemistry, endocrinology and immunology at the US
> Centers for Disease Control and for twelve years in Smith Kline B
> eecham Clinical Laboratories where he was involved with specialized
> medical testing for toxicology (poisons and drugs), immunology,
tumor
> receptors and endocrinology. For the subsequent five years, William
> was an associate professor at the University of Missouri at Kansas
> City (UMKC) School of Medicine. At the same time, he served as
> Director of Clinical Chemistry, Toxicology and Endocrinology and
the
> organic acid testing for metabolic conditions at UMKC's Children's
> Mercy Hospital. Currently, William serves as Director of The Great
> Plains Laboratory for health, metabolism and nutrition in Lenexa,
> Kansas. He specializes in metabolic and nutritional factors in a
wide
> range of human diseases, with a special focus on the the metabolic,
> infectious, nutritional, and immunological causes of autism and
PDD.
>
>
> Wednesday June 29, 9:00pm EST
> Dr. Anju Usman
> Anju Usman, MD is director of True Health Medical Center in
> Naperville, Illinois. She specializes in the treatment of
biochemical
> imbalances in children with ADD and autism. She has been involved
in
> research involving copper/zinc imbalances, metallothionein
> dysfunction, and metallothionein promotion therapy. She is one of
the
> most renouned DAN doctors around.
>
>
> Thursday June 30, 9:30pm EST
> Dr. James Neubrander
> James Neubrander, M.D. graduated from Loma Linda University in
1975,
> trained as a pathologist at the University of South Florida, became
> board certified in Environmental Medicine, and received additional
> training in diagnosing and treating heavy metal disorders. He began
> working with children on the autistic spectrum in 1992. Since 1999
his
> practice consists almost exclusively of children on the autistic
> spectrum and children with other neurodevelopmental delays. He uses
> numerous biomedical approaches but specializes in the use of
> subcutaneous injectable methylcobalamin. (MB-12)
>
> You can download the free chat program here
> http://www.drneubrander.com/page6.html
>
> Chat starts at 9pm eastern time.
>
> Hope to see you all there!!


#2 kim

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Posted 28 June 2005 - 11:45 PM

I actually got to post a message and have it answered live on this forum tonight. My question was "Do you have any advise for children with Tic issues? What tests/supplements might be most beneficial?"

Dr Shaw's response was to say that the biggest break through in this area has been in regards to the streph infection-PANDAS connection, he talked about the unreliability of the throat swab and said you need the ASO and anti dnase tests. He went into a little more detail, but I believe the same info. is in Ronna's post.
He said it could be treated with antibiotics and referred to the effects of the streph antibodies, on the basal ganglia.

He also made the remark that Clostridia could be a factor, and he has heard reports from parents that a few days on Culturelle had taken care of tics in their children. He did not respond to the second part of the question.

This is from memory and some scribbled notes, and much noise and commotion in my house, so don't hold me to the accuracy of any of this information, please.

He talked about levels of low lithium do to people drinking bottled water, and how the bad things may not be present but some good things are lost too. He recommended hair testing for monitoring lithium levels. I believe he said lithium is not found in food, only water.

Oh Andy, I do have a note on NDF and chlorella-SP? -He said since there are studies for working with the two agents you are currently using for detox, he felt more comfortable with those. I think he said, if those were unsuitable, he would more throughly reseach these other two, or if more studies became available on these??? Something to that effect.

The picky eater subject was brought up by a poster. Dr. Shaw said the biggest culprits were high ammonia, if they avoided meat, and to make sure there wasn't urea cycle defect and to have orotic acid levels checked as protein in this situation can be dangerous, also zinc deficiency, or the opiate addiction can cause a loss of hunger for other foods, the 4th reason he gave was candida. More accurate information on these things-since this is my scribbled notes, can be found here http://www.greatplai...com/yeast2.html


He mentioned tetnus booster and flu shots as still containing thermerisol, I was surprised he didn't mention the DT booster, will have to check that again.

He talked about the importance of IGg testing, for some children and acknowledged the fact that some allergists didn't find it reliable; but my impression was that he thought it was beneficial.

He also gave a list of supplements that he personally takes, I thought this was interesting, again please don't rely on the accuracy here, and to the best of my knowledge, he was not recommending anyone take this, he simply stated he did think supplements were beneficial and stated what he took.
3000 mgs vit C
1000 calcium
300 mgs. Magnesium
30 mgs. zinc
100 mgs. B6
1 tsp. fish oil
500 micrograms lithium
1 multi vitamin

Aluminum in tap water was discussed. He said alum. sulphate is used in final purification process.

Recurrent Candida due to Immune deficiency or vaccine damage.

He recommended urine and blood ( do both tests) for amino acid deficiencies, and warned not to take a combo amino acid supplement-only supplement for known deficiencies.

This was a very unexpected surprise and I sat on the floor with a speaker to my ear for 1 hour and 45 minutes, while life went on around me. I missed some things, but I'm glad I got as least as much as i did.

Digestive enzymes and probotics were discussed too, but I was having sound difficulties, and don't remember anything particularly note worthy about either one. Mainly things that have been discussed here before, or that can be found on enzyme web site.

Kim

#3 quan_daniel

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 08:14 AM

Kim,
Great post..
wow..amazing post..
a lot of information..
thanks

#4 quan_daniel

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 09:01 AM

interesting point on culturell and probiotic..the more I learn from autistic website..
it has to do with survivablity intransit to intestine..and the strain in culturelle does that..
just my opinion..please always find a good doctor to discuss this
----
Lactobacillus GG is a bacterium that occurs naturally in the human digestive tract. This strain of bacteria was first isolated by two Boston scientists, Professors Sherwood Gorbach and Barry Goldin, who were searching for a strain of lactobacillus that could colonize the human intestine and thereby exert the beneficial effects which Metchnikoff had hoped to produce by his yogurt cultures. As guides for their research, Gorbach and Goldin established a number of criteria which they believed their ideal probiotic candidate should satisfy. The bacterium would be: 1) be of human origin; 2) capable of attaching to human intestinal (epithelial) cells and colonizing the gut to prevent competition from invading pathogens; 3) resistant to acid and bile, able to survive transit from the stomach to the intestines; 4) exhibit beneficial, health-promoting activity in the host system; and 5) exhibit a high degree of safety. Culturelle is available through Vitamin Research Products (800)877-2447.

#5 Andy

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 11:14 AM

Kim, great posting. I have visited Dr. N's website many times and viewed the videos of the success from his vitamin B12 needles, etc. But to actually question and hear answers from Welsh, Dr. N, etc is truly wonderful. Not to say a savings of hundreds of dollars as well.

"The picky eater subject was brought up by a poster. Dr. Shaw said the biggest culprits were high ammonia" from Kim.

My son is a picky eater and at one time was a non eater. Probiotics and florastor for yeast issues as well as Alpha Ketoglutaric Acid to reduce the ammonia was used.
It is interesting to see that Walsh was on the same page as my Nuerologist and DAN doctor on that one. A Third opinion so to speak. Thanks Kim.

#6 kim

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 10:20 PM

Andy,Daniel, Anyone?

Was anyone there for Dr. Usman tonight? I simply can't believe these chats are available for the parents exploring ASD.

I remember someone from this group posting a high ammonia level from testing. You mention this with your son Andy, I suspect it with one of my sons at least. I look at the testing that has been done for heavy metals for the children of people in this group, and I just can't believe that there isn't a connection. Where is the regular medical community in all of this. Just look at the credentials of the speakers for bio chat, and these Drs. we see regularly tell us there is no such thing as intestinal yeast overgrowth that causes problems, or act like we're ridiculous for not wanting thermerisol containing injections? Or act like we're foolish for questioning the ability of our children to utilize whats in the blood, due to a damaged or malfunctioning pathways? Low enzyme production? Food sensitivities that don't show with conventional testing? Just doesn't make sense.

There was a text message talking about someone in the group from bio chat taking awesome notes, it was said she would post them on a couple of groups, GFCF was one mentioned. If I find it, I will post link. For any of you starting with a DAN Dr. or trying to understand the bio issues involved here, I highly recommend listening to these speakers.

I had a hard time with the audio again tonight. It kept cutting out-so frustrating! Tomorrow for Dr. Neubrander, I will be at a different computer, is anyone else having this problem, or is it my speakers/computer?

Kim

#7 kim

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 12:35 AM

Again tonight the question and answer session with Dr. Neubrander was very informative. A lot of the discussion was in regards to B12 injections which seem to have some pretty amazing results with some of the ASD kids and some NT (neuro typical) kids, with other issues too.

3 for 3 isn't bad. I got to post a question and have it answered again. My question was "Do you treat many patients with Tourette/Tic Syndromes with any success?" I have a self limited eater with tics. Any tests or supplements that you find most beneficial? It seems like many parents are starting to use DAN! Dr.s for treatment."
His answer went something like this -no, I do not see many patients with this disorder, but it's good to look in this direction. I knew of a doctor that could answer your questions and I would tell you to e mail me for his name, but it's packed away in boxes in my office, and I don't think I can find it. I know he treated one guy that beef (beef?) caused his Tourettes, and when he got off beef, the symptoms stopped. Parents using DAN! Drs. are good, we have the bio chem, the vitamins, mineral and all of that, and we need to look at the bio med.

Food allergies were mentioned in there somewhere and that is not an exact quote. Just from memory. I was almost afraid to ask the question. It would not have surprised me for a response like "this is a forum for parents dealing with Autism", ...this gentleman is a very straight shooter. But the more I listened to him, the more I liked him.

He said not to give kids "more" just because "some" is working. He said, it's expensive, and they just pee it out!
He said 10% of what he knows, he learned in medical school, the rest he's learned from parents. He's very big on videoing the kids who show big gains with different treatments.
NDF was discussed again, and he asked parents to keep him informed as to what results they are seeing.
There is someone that takes notes and a poster told me I could e mail her for the notes from all three nights. I will ask her if it's ok to post them here, I don't think it will be a problem, as she said she just shoots them out to the groups.

Probotics and enzymes talked about again. He said to take apart from each other, so the enzyme does not destroy the probotic. Lot's of other important things discussed, however since I am not dealing with an Autistic Child, I had to be patient, and wait to hear about things I was fimiliar with. A lot of question were in regards to chelation.
All three nights I had the impression that, when you start supplements, if your child has been deplete, you may activate pathways which had not been working previously, and that sets off a chain of events.
Maybe when our kids have a flair after using a product like Bonnie's vits, or juicing or what ever you have seen improvement with, it's just the body needing an adjustment in something that they need more of to keep the healing going?
The zinc copper ratio, was discussed again also.

Hope I can get the notes for anyone interested.

Kim

#8 Robin O

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 12:03 PM

Kim, Great information, thanks so much for posting all the information. I would love to see the notes from the other discussions. Robin :D

#9 Caz

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 05:42 AM

Kim, I too listened to Dr Neubrander on biochat after you recommended it. I found him very impressive. He is very passionate about what he does. I only listened for the first hour of so as the baby woke up so I missed your question on Tourette's - interesting his comments on beef. That would seem a highly unusual thing to be allergic to.

Over the past few weeks I have read a little from Dr Neubranders website, and looking at the research that has been done on methyl b12, especially the paper on autism and methylation by Jill James. I guessed my kid needed this, as he has low methionine, high b12 in blood and 5.5 homocysteine. As an experament we are trying sublingual methyl b12 and we are seeing a further decrease in tics - but we are only 2 weeks into it, so who knows if the improvement will be sustained.
I know Dr N only recommends subcutainious injections, but I really just wanted to see if this made a difference before I tried needles, I think my kid would be totally unimpressed if I tried to give him a needle in the butt.

I agree that sometimes supps make things worse before they get better.

Thanks again for recommending biochat, its great to hear these dan dr's live.

Caz

#10 kim

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 11:16 AM

Caz,

This is a question I have wondered about often. If something is high in the blood as you mention your sons B12, does that mean it is not being used? Was the B12 over the test range on the high side? The B12 and cystein are things I'm reading about, but they are too advanced for me at this point. We are only to start testing this month, July 14th so I know we are quite a ways away from results.

Is the sublingual B12 a more absorbable form?

Could you post the link to Dr. N's website (I have the site, but I don't recall seeing a "research" option) where you found the studies?

Also, can you tell me what tests your son has had? It would be so helpful, probably to Robin, Karen too? Thanks!

Kim

Everyone is very welcome for the biochat posts. I'm so glad you have found them helpful.

#11 kim

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 01:37 PM

:D A child recently died while receiving IV EDTA. Please excercise extreme caution with use of this product and the qualifications of the Medical Professional who is administering it, until more is known about this death :(
8/31/05 Kim

Here's the reply from the generous person who said she would forward the notes!

I am absolutely sure you can cross posts.
I have a list called asd_solutions where they are all on file along with Thoughtful House and DAN notes. http://health.groups.../asd_solutions/
Here is what I have thus far. These are all parent notes. Enjoy! You could cut and past these to a word document to compress the file to forward.
Blessings
Karen
Dr. Shaw:
Q: For someone with OCD and Aspergers what supps would you recommend?

A: Same as for autism. Also, with the OCD, look at the strep connection, and brain autoimmunity.



Q: What causes the pacing my child does?

A: Use supps for autism; find food allergies; look into heavy metal toxicity; and dysbiosis.



Q: MB-12 shots from a DAN! dr are too expensive for our budget. What to do?

A: You can get a prescription from your regular pediatrician, just give him Dr Neubranderís protocol.



Q: What to do for lymphonodular hyperplasia?

A: Caused by measles in the gut. You need to treat the measles in the gut.



Fudenberg link: http://www.nitrf.org/abstracts.html



Q: How to get metallothionine levels up?

A: Metallothionine contains tons of sulphur, cysteine. It chelates metals. It is the main transport protein for zinc. Many ASD kids have low metallothionine. Check the zinc to metallothionine ratio. If it is low, these kids need to be chelated on a regular basis because their body cannot detox heavy metals naturally.



Q: Hair tests

A: Dr Shaw likes the hair tests because they show things 250x higher then blood tests. Metals in the hair are typically higher then in the blood. In a non-autistic, the mercury in the hair directly correlates to the brain mercury. This may not be true for an ASD child, as the donít always excrete heavy metals in hair. Hair tests are good for showing deficiencies in lithium, iodine, manganese and selenium, which are commonly low in ASD kids. Lithium used to be in our water, but with all the purifying they do, lithium is not easily found in water these days.



Q: OAT test and yeast

A: High Arabinose is a marker of yeast problems. Thatís the most important marker of the OAT test for diagnosis yeast issues. Exposure to heavy metals suppresses the immune system, so it cannot attack the yeast properly. Also, genetic or vaccine damage can be other reasons for poorly functioning immune. Youíve probably heard with AIDS they also battle candida.



Q: Probiotics

A: The good ones are lactobacillus acidophilus gg or lactobacillus rhamnosus. Also sacromyces boullardi. These are the strains that work. Culturelle is NOT casein-free.



Q: Ammonia

A: Some children shun meat, and become vegetarian. This might be because of an ammonia issue. Make sure the detox of ammonia is ok Ė this is called uria cycle defect. Best way to test for it is Oratic Acid Test. Hard to test for ammonia, not stable. Ammonia is high in ASD kids because of dysbiosis.



Q: SSRIís

A: You need higher and higher doses of SSRI over time, so it only works as a short-term fix.



Q: Why would high aluminum be in the hair?

A: Municipal tap water is a primary candidate. Look into malic acid or malate. It can be used to remove aluminum from the body.



Q: Flu shot

A: Dr Shaw knows a man who went into a coma for a year after having a flu shot! Thimerosal is still in flu shots and tetanus boosters. A bad reaction to a flu shot could be from the mercury/thimerosal, or it could be from the virus itself. Also look into food allergies and dysbiosis.



Q: If candida issue exists, do we stop chelation to get the yeast under control?

A: Go ahead with chelation, while on a good antifungal. Transdermal chelation is popular because it does avoid some of the yeast issues. However, the chelator is still excreted in bile and stool so it can cause candida issues.



Q: Picky eaters

A: Several common issues. 1) Opiate addiction Ė try the gluten-free casein-free diet. Sometimes kids start to vary their food choices finally when on this diet. 2) Zinc deficiency Ė some kids have their appetite take off when supplemented with zinc 3) extreme candida Ė causes ulcers in esophagus, painful to eat Ė treat candida 4) aversion to protein foods because producing excessive ammonia. Signs of candida include thrush, white tongue, severe diarrhea, but not all kids exhibit these signs.



Q: IgA deficiency

A: Remove metals, IgA might go back to normal. Also supplement with casein-free colustrum, and chelate. Could give antibodies by mouth, but this is not practical.



Q: IgE test showed high levels, will the child always be allergic?

A: Most likely yes. IgE shows allergies such as hives. These types of allergies are best not to fool around with. Stay away from these foods.



Q: Tics

A: Try antibiotics or IvIG. Get throat culture, and strep test. Sometimes they get a false negative, so get 2 or 3 tests. Antibody tests useful Ė ASO (anti-strepÖ) or anti-DNASE. Child could be a carrier, so wouldnít have the sore throat from strep, but could have Tic. Clostridia bacteria can also cause Tics Ė in one case Dr Shaw said Culturelle completely resolved the Tic issue for a child.





Q: Lithium

A: Hair metal test is the best way to monitor lithium. Lithium is not in water, since bottled water has all the contaminants removed (missing the beneficial nutrients now). Studies have shown there are high crime rates in areas with low lithium.



Q: Fish oil

A: High amounts of polyunsaturated acids, but they are subject to oxidative damage, so take enough vitamin C and vitamin E to make sure the fish oil doesnít become rancid.



Q: Over the counter chelators like NDF and chlorella

A: These donít have the same number of studies and amount of information available about them, so hard to compare to things like DMSA and DMPS.



Dr Usman:



Q: My question is in regards to Dr. Buttar's TD-DMPS, which I understand you have prescribed for some of your patients. I have read on two different message boards that some parents are dividing their regular dose into 3 or 4 doses and then give it 3 or 4 times throughout the day, everyday, along with vitamins and minerals everyday. Can you give guidance on this? Should minerals be given on the same day as the cream? Should the cream be given daily? Or in less than a 24 hour period from last application?



A: (Missed first part of her answer)

Dr Usman doesnít dose DMPS every day

Uses EDTA on a daily basis



Q: Hi Dr. Usman, what's your opinion on the new TD-DMSA? Especially the one from Lee Silsby pharmacy. There is so much buzz around it. Do you think it is as effective as TD-DMPS? And would you recommend it instead of TD-DMPS?



A: Dr Usman has talked to Lee Silsby lab, and others, about TD-DMSA. If worried about lead, sheíd be more likely to use DMSA then DMPS, since DMPS is not great at chelating lead.

Sheís had patients that have used oral DMSA in the past, but she thinks transdermal is better, because bypasses gut, doesnít cause yeast and bacterial issues as much as oral.



Q: Greetings Dr. Usman! Thanks for participating! Our son was clearly having an intolerance to DMPS in the beginning. We tested his liver and kidney activity, and found nothing amiss. We took a month off and provided liver drainage remedies, Ruben was able to tolerate the DMPS. How reliable are these kidney or liver tests? Is there perhaps a better way (read: more accurate) to test for liver stress than the comprehensive metabolic panel?



A: There is not a better way, unfortunately. There is a liver detox panel by Great Smokiest that looks at phase I (p450) and phase II (glycenation, sulphation, etc). But you have to give child caffeine and Tylenol, and Dr Usman does not feel comfortable giving any of her patients Tylenol. Sometimes she runs the blood portion of the panel only, and gets reading of sulfate, glutathione, and a few other things. Liver stress is often suspected if the child wakes between 3 and 5 am, or is very angry with emotional outbursts. With kidney they see frequent urination. When chelating, there is always a chance the liver/kidney are under stress, but there is not a good test to prove it.



Q: Hi Dr. Usman! How can you tell if your child is lead poisoned? What are the latest treatments for dealing with lead poisoning when a child is also being treated with Td-DMPS?



A: Anything over 10 lead level needs treatment. Dr Usman saw a lot of lead toxicity Ė kids had adhd, impulsivity, poor focus, poor cognitive ability, hypotonia, fine motor delays. Cutoff was 40 on blood lead at that time (years ago). Now anything above 20 is when drs will chelate. Everything with these ASD kids is additive and synergistic, so if mercury is there and lead is there, the combination is much higher then either alone. Blood-lead level test often doesnít show lead Ė hides in tissues, not blood, unless there is a chronic exposure, or a recent acute exposure.



Q: Hi Dr. Usman. Have you ever seen hair and urine levels of mercury and other metals go down after several months of TD-DMPS chelation with no progress in autistic symptoms? My 4-year old son has been chelating for 7 months without progress. We tested his metals without giving any chelator before starting chelation and he was excreting some mercury and other metals in hair and urine. Seven months later the mercury has disappeared from hair and urine and he now has very little metals at all in his hair. There is not much in stool either. He has made no progress and only become stimmier. Have you seen this before and what do you believe was going on?



A: Dr Usman has not really seen that, where less mercury comes out. DMPS is preferential for mercury, so they would see less other metals come out. Possibly look into viral titers to see if something is going on with that. Also, you may have stirred up other metals that are more prominent but are not coming out with the chelator youíre using, so you might look into changing chelating agents, and come back to DMPS later to get the mercury after you have gotten some of the other metals out.



Q: Thanks for being here, Dr. Usman! Do you think that using a chelator like DMPS (that doesn't cross the blood brain barrier) can fully recover a child (in getting the metals completely out)? Is something like ALA necessary or recommended? Would it be ok to do TD-ALA every 2-3 hours during the day but not at night, on the TD-DMPS days? Does skipping the nights redistribute the metals to the brain?

A: There is a theory that ALA can cross the blood brain barrier, but other studies say it doesnít. TD_DMPS is 4 parts glutathione precursor to 1 part DMPS. With glutathione, it doesnít enter the body as glutathione Ė glutamate, cysteine, etc. So glutathione has potential to detox metals from brain. ALA has theoretical potential for going into brain and binding with heavy metal. None of chelating agents cross blood-brain barrier. Dr Aposhian studied DMSA and DMPS and it did not cross the bbb in rats. You donít want to move metals into brain, so timing of ALA has to be just right. You donít want to mobilize metals and not finish the job. The half-life of TD-DMPS is longer (then ALA). Doing ALA at night, you might not be working on the metals that the DMPS stirred up. Doing ALA all through the night might not give you much greater benefit, Dr Usman is unsure, we just donít know.



Q: what causes zinc/copper levels to go the opposite way after supplementing 2 years with zinc. ?



A: When Dr Usman was at Pfeiffer, she saw that a lot. When supplementing with things the child needs badly, the more you give, the more the child needs. Dr Usman has seen this with methyl B-12 and cobalt too. When you start a system that has been dormant for a while, like the methylation cycle, it will use up cofactors, and the more you rev it the more it will need and use. With some kids the need is so great. During chelation or detox, itís very hard to get a handle on normaling copper/zinc ratios, and glutathione levels. Dr Usman doesnít measure glutathione and cysteine during chelation, because itís almost impossible to get a read on them. High copper is also a sign of inflammation Ė look at the gut to see whatís going on. Also, look at yeast, because copper and yeast issues tend to go hand in hand. Bringing down copper is imperative to control yeast Ė molybdenum is a good supp for that. Also, other types of zinc might help, take on empty stomach, use ionized or TD form of zinc, take on empty stomach.



Q: Can you chelate with TD-DMPS with very high copper and lower zinc levels without hurting them? We have checked yeast levels and they are ok



A: If youíve tried for 6 weeks and are still unsuccessful, try EDTA first, itís a good chelator of copper. Also look at intercellular copper levels, and consider carnosine if theyíre low. Try to chelate the copper out, then go back and try TD-DMPS.



Q: I wanted to know if it necessary to take a break from dmps. We have been chelating 7 mos. and are excreting mercury in the yellow, yeast and bacteria is heavy but treating and having continual die off.. my son is 34 mos. old and tolerating all very well.. thx



A: Dr Usman thinks itís the wrong thing to do right in the middle of all this excretion of mercury, esp since tolerating it well. You seem to be maintaining yeast issues? So wait for mercury to come down, then consider adding TD-ALA.



Q: I know this can be a controversial, yet sensitive in nature and may bring up a host of new Q's, but feel it is also important that it is discussed.



Can you please expand on what you believe to be the most effective chelation protocols as it relates to different chelating agents that are used with limited redistribution in the process?



Do you feel redistribution is inevitable in the course of chelation?



Also can you comment, perhaps warn the listener on any chelation that promotes unnecessary redistribution?



A: Dr Usman uses a diff chelation protocol with each child, because of tolerabilities, needs, etc. What is most effective for one child may be totally ineffective for another child. A chelating agent is tightly bound to a metal that it has an affinity for. When we talk about redistribution, Dr Usman is not sure if the signs being seen are because of redist, or because pathways are being opened. Enzyme pathway issues and gut problems happen often with chelation. I donít think redist is inevitable. If you do chelation in a slow and concise pattern, you can get metals out and unburden the systems. Dr Usman asks her patients to clean up their environment and their diet along with chelating. Energy medicine, passages of elimination, drainage Ė emunctories. Deal with stool problems, kidney problems, etc. Dr Usman using homeopathic remedies for drainage and to keep channels open to prevent backup. When she initiates chelation she starts very gradually, and watches for adverse symptoms. Donít want more of a burden on the body, so the drainage pathways need to be open. Sometimes genetic testing helps to discover where blockages are.



Q: Hi Dr Usman, My 4 year old asd son has been chelating with TD DMPS for the last 8 months. (Dr Buttars protocol, every other day). My son has a lot of toxic metals including very high Lead & Tin levels so, We have recently added 1 EDTA Detoxamin suppository on the OFF days. I have heard a lot about Biochelat oral EDTA. Can I use this as well as the detoxamin in my son's chelation protocol?. Could i give him the bio-chelat drops every day or on just the OFF days of DMPS. Thank You





A: Hard to answer a question about a child that is not her patient. If child is handling DMPS protocol well and there are not a lot of side effects, but DMPS is not pulling the tin and lead, she agrees the EDTA detoxamin every other day is good. Itís pretty potent. Try for a couple months. A lot of metals show up in the stool testing but not urine testing. Giving an oral agent that is non-sulfur based like EDTA can help the bacterial overgrowth issue. It will bind up some of the excess metal in gut. Also sometimes she uses clathrating agent, PCA, NDF, MetalFree or chlorella on off days, to bind up metals in the gut.

Most of her patients are tolerating EDTA very well. There is an unsaid rule not to use two chelating agents at once, but as long as patients are being monitored properly with a good doctor, itís doable. Dr Usman realizes that patients sometimes take on their own protocol. But sometimes you can push too hard, so itís key to have a good doctor with good monitoring, donít do it by yourself.



Q: Can Probiotics be given along with enzymes?? Does the enzyme cause any essentials vitamans and minerals deficiency in body.



A: Dr Usman wouldnít want the enzymes to be given along with probiotics, the enzymes will break down the probiotics. Make sure to give them separately.



Q: Dr. Usman, have you seen in your kids a relationship between histamine/serotonin levels and OCD behaviors, nail biting and/or nonstop stimming? How do you raise/lower these levels, or address these behaviors, as needed? Also, do you see such a thing as a "detox rash" in your kids from chelation or MB-12s? Is there such a thing?



A: There is a correlation between histamines/seratonin and OCD. If a child has high histamine, the body is not clearing histamines well. The body needs methylation to clear histamines, so high histamines means undermethylating. Quite possible you have low serotonin levels. There is such a thing as a detox rash. Itís hard to figure out, there are no good studies or scientific explanation.



Q: WElcome Dr. Usman and thank you for sharing your time with us. My questions is if there a natural chelator THat i can also use on my NT kids who have attention and hyperness problems my youngest who is ASD is under the care of Dr. Neubrander and We are in the process of doing the toxins test. Yet i was intrested in a natural chelator for my other two kids.



A: NAC, ALA, MB-12 etc are natural to the body and can boost the body to clear metals more effectively. There are also natural herbal agents that bind Ė cilantro, parsley, chlorella, spirulina. Some of the natural agents though are not produced under strict enough conditions, and could be contaminated themselves. She uses Metalfree, PCA-rx, NDF, and is happy with the standards on those.



Q: Dr. Usman, what are your thoughts on EDTA suppositories like Detoxamin vs. oral EDTA? Also, what are the homeopathic drainage remedies you recommend for kidney, liver and lymphatic drainage? Thank you.



A: The suppositories are quite potent and quite effective. If you have gut/GI symptoms, consider a suppository over oral EDTA. Then again, some patients respond better to oral.

Homeopathics are in a white pellet (lactose) or drops (non-gluten grain alcohol). Some kids have trouble with alcohol drops. Dilute in water Ė the more dilute, the more potent. Tends to use Apex or Energetix homeopathic drainage remedies. The names say what they do.



Q: We suspect liver stress in our son (he wakes up at 3-5 am, is quite irritable, etc.), a big departure from the beginning of the process where he was happy for the first time in ages. We have reduced his dose of TD-DMPS down to half of the full dose for his weight. When you suspect liver stress in a child on this chelator, do you generally recommend reducing the dose in this way? Stopping entirely? Switching to an alternate chelator?



A: If he was doing well on TD-DMPS initially, then try to continue on that. The waking at 3 could be liver stress. Other things that can stress the liver are yeast/bacteria. Cut the dose and work it up gradually, while supporting the liver and gut. Sometimes changing the protocol of the DMPS can help. You might add a clathrating agent, it doesnít get detoxed through the liver, so it might take some stress off the liver. Or a homeopathic liver support product might help.



Q: Why can my daughter not tolerate Lipoceutical Gluthathione ... does it stir up the yeast.? She tested negative for yeast about 6 months ago. We have not yet started chelation. Also are there any benefits of giving MB12 shots daily ?



A: There are some children that do not tolerate glutathione, not just lipo, but any form. Could be due to a different mechanism. Any sulfur based nutrient can seek yeast. Glutathione is glutamate, cysteine, and glycine. The glutamate can cause excitation in the brain, so some kids donít tolerate glutamate, glycine, tomatoes, mushrooms, etc. They might also crave those same things, high in excitotoxins, phenols, nitrites, sulfites. Also, she might have some yeast overgrowth. Most patients cannot tolerate the dose they recommend for lipo glut, Dr Usman tends to use drops starting out and work up.

MB-12 daily Ė Dr Usman has been increasing 3rd day dose, to see what happens. Some folks have tried every other day or every day, they found their child had such a deficiency that they needed it every day.



Dr Neubrander:

Q: Where is the correct location on a child's bottom to inject the B12 shot?



A: You can go anywhere on the buttocks that has the most fat.



Q: I have a couple of questions regarding the MB-12shots.

How can MB12 shots help HFA highly verbal child? How to tackle hyperactivity which happens

on initiation of the shots?

Is there an age limit beyond which the MB12 shots may not be helpful?

Have there been patients who have been successfully weaned off the shots?

Are there any potential sideeffects of using ELMA cream and MB-12 shots

together?



A: If you look at the parent designed report, you can see all the things MB-12 does. Dr Neubrander has used MB-12 even on children with very high queues, it helps them function better. He thinks pretty much everyone should take MB-12.

AutismOne Handout Chigago 2005 (his website under downloads) has the best description about tolerable side effects and positive negative side effects. Hyperactivity is a release valve for these children. A lot of the hyperactivity will past as the enzymes regulate Ė 4 to 6 months.

Age limit Ė about 104. In other words, there is no age limit in which itís not useful.

Patients that donít need it have been weaned. But most bodies need it. If enzymes regenerate themselves and come back, then you might not need itÖbut that doesnít happen, Dr N hasnít seen it.

BLT and EMLA have no side effects, unless the child is allergic. The allergic reaction will be a rash. If you see redness at the spot, that is like a blush, itís not an allergy.



Q: My son has slightly elevated urinary succinyl purine. What does that mean and is it alarming? In addition, he has a high sulfate to creatine ratio via urine test. What does that mean? Also, my son's mercury was elevated in hair before dmsa, and after dmsa, mercury in hair was lower, but aluminium skyrocketed. What would cause this? Will the mercury re-enter the brain during chelation ?





A: Succinyl purine is uncommon. Best to talk to Dr Shaw at Great Plains, itís rare.

Creatinine to sulfate ratio is a way to look at detox, thatís what it means. High sulfate sometimes means detox is working, but also sometimes means detox is not working Ė itís not simple.

Hair tests need to be read by very very skilled people, because it can mean A or it can mean B.

Hair can be contaminated by hairspray or other things with aluminum.

Dr Neubrander doesnít believe in redistribution with strong chelators like DMSA or DMPS. They are so strong Ė they pull mercury off a body tissue Ė why would it ever drop it? One percent of less of metals would actually come off, in Dr Nís opinion. Very little is known about chelation, even by those that know it the best. There are so many falsehoods and rumors. Dr N doesnít think the mercury would be redistributed to the brain.



Q: For children who do better with mb12 shots daily, do some children need the full dose rather than cutting the dose down?



A: Donít play with this unless you have a dr that has done this a lot. Some can do better with daily. Usually itís when the child is so thin that Dr N recommends the daily, but heís just starting this ďtrialĒ of daily shots, so donít everyone jump on it. Heís evaluating. Heís done over 7000 shots altogether, so wait for him, donít just jump onto this bandwagon.



Q: my son has been on oral dmg with folinic + MB12(6mcg) 2x a day for 4 weeks now(i know this is a very low amount). he has improved in all areas and is mouthing things. we have an appointment to go back to the dr we are seeing. he starts out at 1x a week. is this ok or should we start with every 3 days.



A: Dr N cannot treat anyone elses patients. That said, he has a protocol that is widely available to everyone. Itís in the AutismOne handout. You need a dose high enough to do something. Dr N cannot say your dr is wrong, esp without seeing the child. But he did one shot a week way back when, and it didnít last the whole week. That is why he came up with the protocol. Also Dr N doesnít start with DMG or folinic. He adds these afterwards as a trial. DMG can compete with the MB-12.



Q: Dr. Neubrander: Thank you for taking the time to speak to us this evening. I read your website notes where you mentioned the correct location for injection for a slender child (which she is) and tried that for my teenaged PDD-NOS child this morning. When she had the regular B12 injection she didn't seem as agitated. Is there history of children responding better to the regular B12 as opposed to the methyl B12? I also see a noticeable regression in behavior (increase in OCD). More like two steps forward, one step back. Is this common? Her degrading and unpredictable behavior and meltdowns is wreaking havoc on her siblings.



A: Meltdowns and wreaking havoc might be a tolerable intolerable, you have to decide, as you live with her. Cyanocobalamin, hydroxy b-12, methyl b-12, adenal b-12, glutathional b-12. Youíre using a partially active form. You have to have all the machinery working, mb-12 bypasses the things that donít work. You have to understand the tolerable intolerable negative positive.



Q: My 3 year old son with PDD has been bruising easily for the past few weeks. Is this a side effect from one of the supplementsÖ.Could that mean that he is on too many supplements? (He is currently on supernuthera, cod liver oil, calcium powder, dmg, magnesium glycinate powder, enzyme capsules, zinc, and b12shots.)?



A: Could be the body readjusting. Please let us know when you figure this out, itís a hard question.



Q: Dr. Neubrander, do you have a recommendation for how to rotate EDTA suppositories and TD DMSA? Thank you.



A: You canít get these without a prescription, so some other dr is treating your child. That said, Dr Neubrander is revising his protocols to include EDTA, DMSA, etc. This DAN! stuff is on his mind 24x7. Know that the DAN! doctors are working on this. EDTA is the strongest for lead. For lead EDTA first, DMSA second, DMPS third. DMPS, DMSA, EDTA for mercury. There is a lot of lead in East Ė esp Alabama Louisiana.



Q: Do you use chelation with the MB-12 protocol or do you find the shots more helpful before or after chelation? We have been chelating our 8yo with DMSA for about 15 months and are seeing some very slow progress. We want to add MB-12 to the mix.



A: MB-12 is a treatment that gives you benefit now. Rick has put tons of videos out on the website for you to watch. Dr N asks folks to tell the good and the bad on these videos. Of all therapies (behavior, biomed, learning), the MB-12 is the therapy that has made a difference. In Dr Nís opinion, MB-12 should ALWAYS be started first. We want low oxidative stress, high glutathione, before chelation. MB-12 helps with that.



Q: Dr. Neubrander, we believe we are seeing a "detox rash" now 20 weeks into MB-12s with our high-responding son, even though we are not yet chelating. Do you believe such a rash could be indicating improved detox ability kickstarted by the MB-12s? Do you have kids who are significantly detoxing with MB-12s and without chelation?



A: The observation is ďthere is a rashĒ. Is it really a detox rash? If it is, MB-12 does increase glutathione, and theoretically the glutathione could cause a detox rash. We put a lot of emphasis on mercury Ė oxidative stress is a big problem, and all the other metals. The bigger picture is oxidative stress means you canít get rid of anything.



Q: I have started my son on enzyme from 4 days, he is getting very hyper, giggling and running in circles, what could be the reason for this?? Along with enzymes can probiotics be given?? Along with enzymes what essential vitamns or minerals should be considered to be given?? Can some flavours in vitamins cause any sideeffects for kids, like hyperactivity?? Does bromelian and papayin in enzyme together has any side effects???



A: Sometimes enzymes do this to some of the children. Enzymes and probiotics should not be given together Ė enzymes digest the probiotics, so try to separate them. Vitamins every child should getŤ Calcium, magnesium, zinc, selenium, all necessary. B vitamins, minerals, omega 3 oils. Wants the child to get omega 6 from food, not from a pill.

Every child is different, some cannot tolerate colorings or flavors, esp those that have problems with salicylates or phenols. I donít know the answer to bromelain/papayain question.



Q: If a kid has been receiving MB-12 for 10 months without noticeable improvement, would you recommend continuing with it or stopping it? Do you think there might be a chance that he has been benefiting from it without showing outwardly? (We use 1250 mcg and have tried every 3 days, 2 days and daily.) Thank you.



A: Concentration makes a lot of difference, he cannot tell the concentration from 1250 mcg. Depends on what else is being used. TMG theory was out there, a lot of kids on that, but sometimes TMG blocks it.



Q: My 3.5 y/o son has been taking MB12 shots (from Wellness) for 5 months and TD-DMPS for 4. His awareness and nonverbal communication have improved, but he has poor eye contact and no receptive or expressive language. (Sleep issues and interaction with strangers/relatives have improved also) I had previously done 5 rounds of DMSA/ALA every 4 hours for three days, and after the fifth round he had spontaneously spoken a few words, and his eye contact was up as well. My DAN doctor hasn't ordered any tests aside from the initial stool tests. Can you steer me into the right direction on what kind of testing I should pursue with my doctor/



A: This is why my parents fill out so many forms. This is a difficult question. There is no simple test. He has receptive language. The MB-12 sounds like its working. Chelation works slowly, MB-12 works quickly. DMSA does different things then DMPS. DMPS has gotten such a hype, we all want that magic bullet. DMPS is not right for every kid. If your child was doing better on DMSA/ALA, maybe thatís the right combo for him.



Q: I am wondering if anyone else has run into pica after starting MB-12? My son used to eat dirt from time to time but it was uncommon. Now since starting MB-12 he has started eating dirt on the "off" days (he doesn't the day after the shot but the two days between that and the next one, he also does better the one day right after a shot). We are on a every 3 day schedule. I read somewhere that soil is high in MB-12, is this a sign he would do better on an every day MB-12 injection schedule? If not what does this mean, any ideas? He is 35 lbs (tall and lean) and his current dose is 0.04ML (1000mcg) METHYLB 12-25 MG/ML from Wellness, does that sound about right for his size?



A: Soil is not high in MB-12. One of the most common side effects of MB-12 is mouthing objects, playing with tongues, etc. Thatís a positive negative, the nerves are coming back to life. Usually 2-6 months. True pica, eating dirt, is usually a mineral deficiency. The mb-12 gets pathways working, and you need zinc and magnesium. Yes, the dose is good. Doesnít need more frequent schedule Ė needs more minerals.



Q: Any suggestions how to practice giving the MB-12 shot, before actually giving

shot to my child. What possible sideeffects can happen if shot is given

improperly, since we are just starting out.

How to prevent damage to sciatic nerve while using MB-12 shots?

What if a child is intolerant to Zinc, what to do abot it during chelation?



A: Just do it, no need to practice. If you do it, youíll learn, you canít hurt anyone, unless you give it in the eyeball, and Iíve never had a parent do that. Get past the fear. To prevent damage to sciatic nerve, use 31 guage 8 millimeter needle. You canít hurt the sciatic nerve with this size of needle. Also the 10-30 degree angle will keep the needle from going in too far.

If child is intolerant to zinc, you should not chelate. But you cannot be intolerant to zinc Ė you just havenít found the right form yet.



Q: My son has been showing some good results on TD DMPS . he is also on MB12 shots every 3 days. I want to stop the MB12 shots and do only the chelation. As i donot see much progress with MB12 shots. would appreciate your comment on it I also want to try Vitamin A high dose protocol



A: You can do what you feel is right for your child. A lot of times folks want too much too soon. MB-12 can be like a tree, it starts slowly (if child is a responder), then grows. It increases the glutathione, which is extremely hard to get in, so thereís a good benefit. For that reason alone, you might want to continue with MB-12. High dose Vitamin A has been looked at by Dr McCandless.

If we give 3 things and have a response, which one did it? Which do we stop? These kids have to take so many supplements. When you make a change, make sure you know if that supplement really made a difference or not.



Q: Hi Doc, what are known causes/treatments of teeth grinding. When my son does this he could wake the dead. Floating around the boards are zinc deficiency and/or dumping metals/toxins. Thanks.



A: Zinc deficiency is most likely. I donít think itís the metals and dumping.



Q: I have heard that chelation as well as creatine help with low muscle tone. I understand how chelation could help, but how would creatine help with tone and how much should we give?



A: Creatine is what muscle builders use. (Creatinine is something that comes out in urine.) Kirkman has creatine. Itís involved in speech pathways. In Dr Baker/Dr Pangborn book, you can look up creatine.



Q: I am not currently using a doc (used to). I do our energy clearings, etc. with good results. Just want to know how you'd compare the methylB12 shots vs. methylB12 5 mg. tabs from Swanson's, which we've used now with good results. We muscle test for frequency use. My son is around 38 lbs., but I also use it. BTW, bromelain and papaya are very high in phenols. Any docs starting to learn kinesiology muscle testing that you know of? It's the best way to individualize treatments.



A: Oral versus transdermal vs sublingual vs shots Ė shots have the max resuts, hands down. Heís done thousands.



Q: 1) Do your recommend Metal-free or NDF+? I am concerned about whether they might be contaminated also. 2) Do you have a preference for covalent glutamine over L- glutamine?



A: The patients he has that use NDF+ are seeing good results, but Dr N doesnít know why or how it works. Dr N suggests you change nothing else when starting something new, like NDF+.

If something is contaminated, remember these are strong magnets. So letís say you take chlorella contaminated with mercuryÖit should still stay bound. Tissues are weaker magnets then the chelator.

Dr N uses l-glutamine, but doesnít know if itís better or not, no preference.



Q: DR. Neubrander can you give us a layman's explanation as to why the MB12 shots appear to help specifically with Apraxia?



A: We donít know why apraxia is apraxia, or why MB-12 seems to fix it.



Q: Dr.Neubrander : Are you seeing improvements with B-12 for kids with Apraxia . Has any child gone frombeing non-verbal to verbal doing B-12 shots? How long would it take to see improvements with Apraxia using MB B-12? My son has been on the shots ( is 30 pounds taking-0.04ML-1000MCG x3per week) for 4 months and still not alot going on as far as speech . Thanks for your time !



A: Yes, very much so, weíre seeing improvements with MB-12 for apraxia kids. The videos on Matthew, within a few weeks, he was speaking in sentences. By the time Rick filmed, he had to ask Dr N why Dr N called Matthew autistic! He was speaking so well.

Kids go from non-verbal to verbal all the time on MB-12.

How long? He doesnít know. It differs.

If your child responds, let the tree grow.



Q: dr. neubrander, thank you for this forum. i always enjoy your hilarious (while informative) presentations at DAN! My DAN doc has mentioned the use of namenda and possibly actos. Can you tell me what you know about these meds? My 6 year old daughter has autism and adhd and she has had a terrible time with yeast and bacterial infections-we are currently treating her for a second time for c diff with vancomycin. Our DAN doc wants to try these meds before we start chelation as he thinks it will help her gastrointestinal situation. All I know is that Namenda has been successful w/alzheimer's and actos is used for blood pressure and is an anti-inflammatory. Thank you.



A: Dr Neubrander has not used Namenda much, but plans to in near future.



Q: Hi Dr. Neubrander! Joseph began the NDF Plus 8 days ago and now has a red rectum and it seems like it's bothering from time to time but nothing to really get excited about. is this common? He had his scope with Dr. Krigsman last thursday and he was so great with the cleanout; talking, socializing and interacting. He almost appeared to not have any problems. Is it possible that he could be this clear once cleaning up the hyperplasia, if that is even possible to do? Dr. Krigsman mentioned lots of nodules but no ucerations or apparent inflammation of the mucosa, we get biopsy results next week. what to do thing of natural anti inflammatories like quercetin and tumeric? oh, and NDF+ IS working on Joseph's social side



A: Dr N doesnít know if the red bottom is common from NDF+. Doesnít even know if thatís what caused the redness.

During a cleanout, the bugs get cleared out, so yes, itís normal to see great improvement. Yes, he might be clear after cleaning up the hyperplasia. Hold off on quercetin and tumeric until Dr Krigsman is stable with what heís doing.



Q: can enzymes and probiotics be given at different times of the day,not together and what is the most reliable Zinc supplement.We have seen increased stimming ever since we started his enzymes and probiotics



A: Enzymes eat up the probiotics, give at different times. As for zinc, whatever works for your child. Zinc monomethionate works well. With the increased stimming, it might be because things are finally moving in the body.



Q: Being new to the whole idea of mercury poisoning, pardon the very general question Ö my son was dx as HFA at 5 Ĺ (a year ago). So many of the intensive therapies seem to be very focused on the 2-3 year olds. Is biomedical treatment as beneficial for an older child as a younger child? Also, being higher functioning, does it usually take less time to see results than someone lower functioning or does it really just depend on the person?



A: No, these therapies are not focused on 2-3 year olds. Biomedical is beneficial for young or odld. It doesnít take less time to see results Ė it all depends on the person.



Q: Hey Doc its me Vís mom ok I have a good question can a child take too much mb12 and would it also help nt kids?



A: NT kids can take this. He treats a child with a 185 IQ, every time before a test she takes a shot, and has amazing results.

You could probably take too much MB-12, be careful. Probably not lethal, but this must be monitored.



Q: Dr. Neubrander, Have you any experience doing IVIG therapy at the same time as chelation? Our Neurologist has said that the chelation might also remove the effects of the IVIG therapy. Thanks, Kerry PS We're finally starting M-B-12 tonight. I'm so excited!!



A: Dr N doesnít think itís a problem to do IVIG at the same time as chelation. Itís hard to say if your neurologist is right without more info.

There is a 94% chance that you will see something, so good luck in starting the MB-12.



Q: Have you seen more OCD symptoms from taking b12 injections? My son seems to have lost interest in some of the engaging activities we shared and replaced them with opening windows, knocking down chairs, slamming cabinets etc. and if given the opportunity would do this all day long. We have been giving him injections 3x weekly for about 2 1/2 months. He did really well on the b12 sublingual prior to beginning the injections. We did that for approx. 3 weeks and saw more focus, engagement, affection and speech sounds. I decided to immediately do the injections due to the progress. If there is a positive response to sublingual shouldn't you see better responses with the injections? Thanks.



A: No, havenít seen more OCD symptoms from MB-12, less then 5%. In fact, a lot of kids that have OCD before starting MB-12, have it calm down.



Q: Hi! Sorry if this has been asked before. How long will a child be on these shots? What signs (if any) would signal that a child would be ready to test if they are ready to fly on their own? I am trying to explain to J about taking the shots and he keeps telling me he is better. He puts up a pretty good fight when its time for his "pinch". Can chelation aide in restoring a child's own ability to absorb and utilize B-12 naturally?



A: Itís not whether weíre absorbing and utilizing - the enzyme process needs to work, and it might be genetic disposition that keeps it from working. We got J back, donít drop MB-12 yet. Itís at least a 3-4 year process.



Q: Are you treating any patients with Tourette/Tic Syndrome with any success. I have a self limited eater with tics and heavy bedwetting. Any tests/supplements that you feel may be most beneficial?. It seems like many parents are starting to see DAN! Dr.s for this condition.



A: Not treating enough kids with Tourettes to say. Look on the internet, there is a very famous dr that deals with supplements for Tourettes.



Q: My child's glutathione, plasma sulfate and plasma cysteine levels (fasting blood test from Great Smokies) were still VERY low after 3 months of B12 shots. Would you recommend adding a second shot with NAC and folinic acid for this type of a child? We got a combination shot with B12, NAC & folinic all in one shot, but the concentration of B12 can't be 25 mg/ml with the added ingredients. Since my child doesn't mind the shots at all, it wouldn't be a problem to add a second shot. Do you think separating the NAC/folinic from B12 (in order to keep the B12 concentration the same as your protocol) would be better?



A: Dr N quit using the tests Ė unless theyíre done under very rigorous criteria (blood frozen immediately, spin in chilled tubes, etc) the results arenít sound.

Itís fine to add NAC, folinic, but Dr N prefers to have the MB-12 shot separately.

Yes, he does think it would be better to separate.

Q: What is the best chelator for arsenic?



A: Authia (TTFD) is great for arsenic. DMSA and DMPS will also pull arsenic.



Q: Me again, my son began to regress around a year, at 14 and 16 months had extreme reaction to flu shots, a month later I learned what autism is. Do you see this often, do you feel it is more mercury or virus related and what do you think of anti-virals? Also, been tempted many-a-time to give nt son shot. Also, got a sample shot myself one night, was studying for a human bio test and had thougths of becoming a doctot (not like me)! Luv ya



A: Yes, I see this often. Mercury is the second strongest immuno-suppressent. Then put that together with MMR. Then add on flu shot with mercury. Itís a chicken/egg question. Which caused the problem?



Q: We are currently using TD glutathione. Our son has low glutathione but normal cysteine and homocysteine levels, We were not going to add MB12 or folinic acid unless we did not see any results with the glutathione, would you recommend that we add mb12 now? our son has shown some positive changes with glutathione. If we were to add mb12 would you recommend that we continue with glutathione?



A: People pay me not to get their kids a little better, but to get them all the way better. Glutathione and MB-12, synergy.



Q: Dr. Neubrander. Thank you so much for the Methyl B12 protocol. My 3 yr old son has been receiving MB12 shots since 11/04 with outstanding results. His articulation was age appropriate after just 4 months! Recently we have seen a significant increase in scripting and hyperactivity. We have started to space our shots out a little more and immediately saw a decrease in scripting and hyperactivity. Does this sound right? Are we beginning a weaning process of sorts?



A: Donít space the shots out more. Have you changed other things too? This does not sound right. There is something that is blocking the MB-12.



Q: Do you generally see yeast issues increase following MB12 shots? My son's yeast goes whacky every three days right along the time of his shots. I had it battled for a while. After increasing to proper dose per weight, it is back again. Why does that happen? Movement of metals? Thanks a bunch!



A: Iíve heard a lot of folks say that, but when I test it, no I donít see the yeast.

I donít believe weíre moving metals, weíre changing enzyme systems.

If youíre giving the shots in subcutaneous fat, the MB-12 should come out uniformly.



Q: Dr. N, have you seen any patterns in what might cause our kids to excessively bite their nails? My son's doing so since starting MB-12s. Only negative we've seen along the way. This has our DAN stumped (and Dr. Usman here last night). Following your Mb-12 protocol exactly, have treated for yeast, bacteria, and on food allergy restricted GFCF diet. Also, how are you presently supplementing folinic acid w/MB-12? Is it mandatory in your protocol?



A: Itís common for a child to bite nails or put fingers in mouth, lips mouth and tongue are all coming back to life. This is most likely that oral positive negative I mentioned previously.

For folinic acid, I wait until after the 5 week MB-12 trial period in which there are no changes. If the child is an MB-12 responder, I add folinic next. 20% of my kids cannot take it (folinic), the other 80% can.



Q: Thank you for your expertise Dr. Neubrander. Could you tell me when you would start TD-LDN (transdermal low dose naltrexone) we are trying to control clostrida and yeast right now. We are using supps. authia cream, MB-12 shots every 3 days, he has only had two so far. We have seen some results. What have you seen with the TD-LDN.



A: Dr McCandless has taught me about LDN. I will probably be starting it with all my patients.

Most critical to me, I need to find out if the child is an MB-12 responder. My long-term-MB12 kids are better, the longer the better. Add LDN any time after finding out if your child is an MB-12 responder.



Q: I am wondering about the use of raw milk in a GFSF(soy) diet. My children showed to have problems with soy and gluten (in muscle tests) but fine with casein. The DAN doc suggested we switch to raw milk vs. processed and we have done so (I also read the article on mercola.com about raw milk and autism). One of the ladies here was just telling me that casein can block the MB-12 pathways. is this true for all children or only for children who react to casein? and how does casein affect the MB-12? should I cut all milk products from the boys diets (even raw milk)?



A: Many reasons casein might bother a child Ė opiods, IgE, lactose intolerance, cytotoxic, etc. It also can affect the MB-12 pathways. Thatís in about 20% of kids. We canít generalize if kids should be on or off milk. Just try it at a time when youíre not making other changes and see what happens.



Q: Dr. Neubrander, my 19 year old nephew has just been diagnosed with Schizophrenia. I'm trying to find a DAN! Doctor near to where he lives. In the meantime, what tests would you recommend to start with? Any particular supplements?Thanks again!



A: Dr Usman doesnít work with schizophrenia any more, but she might know. I donít have that knowledge because I havenít been working with this. Search Hugh Reardon, or Dr Conyan (president of OrthoMolecular). Schizophrenia is related to high levels of copper.



Q: What has been your "recovery" rate with older kids? You touched briefly on the benefits of mb-12 for everyone, but in your experience, how well do 8-10yo's do? I have an 8yo mild-moderately autistic son and a 10yo hf/ aspie. Also, what, if any, is your experience with PANDAS?



A: Go to the website, watch the older children. Just got a 24-page fax from a mom whose child is 10, MB12 has made all the difference in the world. I donít know how far an older child can go, I havenít had enough older children that stayed on it long enough.





Dr McCandless:

Biochat notesÖ



It was cool to hear people talking!!! and to "see" people queue up to ask questions ...some peple asked with text and others with voice..it was very very interesting...a whole new twist to our community of learning...Here are the (cryptic) notes that I took:

get the glutamates out of the diet. The power of vit c and iv infusion glutathione. We have to approach these kids with everything. a course of the ivig is worth trying if you have the money ($600 a month). LDN shows promise for some children. Actos med for insulin resistence and helps the immune sys shift from t2 to t1. so just do everything. Recommends/uses authia cream (TTFD).

Comprehenive immune panel Ömetalthione cellular test tells us how well the childs own detox is working. Dr krigsman is wonderful, a prince.

Buffered vit c Ė as much 1000mg/day plus to bowel tolerance. In small doses every 2-3 hours to keep it in the blood stream asd long and as often as possible.

Protandin has 5 ingredients Ė, yes all are great herbs but the drug is expensive, all of the ingredients are safe, many already on milk thistle and theanine (sedating effect), and not too many on tumeric (she uses for cancer adult patients) Ö actuaginda (sp?) sounds wonderfulÖ she uses all 5 herself now

Probiotic rotate only if necessaryÖdo what works..the klaire detox probiotic is great. The no fenol, some like threelac, do whatever keeps your kids gut healthy

#12 Andy

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 06:39 PM

Wow Kim. A coversation like that in a Doctors office would run between 300 to 500 dollars. A wealth of information in so many ways. Great posting!

I found the following four quotes to be of the most interest.


1."Dr Neubrander doesnít believe in redistribution with strong chelators like DMSA or DMPS. They are so strong Ė they pull mercury off a body tissue Ė why would it ever drop it? One percent of less of metals would actually come off, in Dr Nís opinion. Very little is known about chelation, even by those that know it the best. There are so many falsehoods and rumors. Dr N doesnít think the mercury would be redistributed to the brain.

My son has had remarkable results with his DMPS and especially DMSA treatments. I was hestitant to have started them in the first place due to the amount of misinformation on the internet. I am glad to see him shoot down one of the major "rumors".


2. "So glutathione has potential to detox metals from brain."

Big information here. This is what the Vitamin B12 needle is all about and the glutathone creams so many of us lotion our kids with.

3. NAC, ALA, MB-12 etc are natural to the body and can boost the body to clear metals more effectively. There are also natural herbal agents that bind Ė cilantro, parsley, chlorella, spirulina. Some of the natural agents though are not produced under strict enough conditions, and could be contaminated themselves. She uses Metalfree, PCA-rx, NDF, and is happy with the standards on those."

4. "The patients he has that use NDF+ are seeing good results, but Dr N doesnít know why or how it works. Dr N suggests you change nothing else when starting something new, like NDF+".


I believe that Chemar has had great results with chlorella and I am glad to see that NDF-plus is starting to get DAN doctor support. I am hoping to use NDF-plus as a life time measure to keep my son's body detoxed in the future as well as to pick up any lingering metals.

#13 kim

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 10:49 PM

Andy,

I believe I sent you the information about Dr. N's opinion about the mercury not being redistributed the same night he was on, but as I said, I'm wondering if my PM option is working right, it was included in the response to your message also, I think. I knew some of those things would be really of interest to you. It made sense when he talked about the metals being tightly bound, and them not being just "dropped" some where along the way. He also talked about that in regards to chorella. He said even if it was contaminated to begin with, he felt it would stay bound and just be eliminated. Also, he said most reputable companies include a certificate of purity. If I'm posting something I already have, forgive me. I haven't even read through these notes myself yet.

I was really sorry I missed Dr. McCandless. I thought her book was wonderful.

It really makes me sad that I so strongly feel the same issues overlap with what we're dealing with, yet it appears these Dr.s really don't see our kids in very large numbers. We know from the success stories here, that bolstering the immune system, detox, treating allergies, food sensitivites, enzymes, amino acid deficiencies, fatty acid deficiencies etc. have dramatic results for our kids too, however, the response I received all 3 nights was not overly encouraging. Dr. N. said "not many of us do" when I asked the question about him seeing TS patients.
Maybe as more people take this path, we will have more answers about what is most effective. That's why I think this forum is invaluable. If we keep comparing test results and the effectivness of treatments, we can make so much more progress. Chemar, Claire and others have made such wonderful strides in getting the word out, we just need to stick with it. I really think somewhere, in the not to distant future, medication will be the "alternative".

Kim

#14 Caz

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 11:57 PM

Kim, and others

Thanks for the transcripts of the other speakers. All the research into Autism is really helpful in that they are working out best protocols for getting rid of heavy metals, gut bugs and inflammation, so I like to read all I can about it.

The info on oxidative stress and how it refers to the methylation pathway and how methyl b12 kickstarts this is found in the following research

oxidative stress markers

The info I have been reading on Dr Neubranders site is in the downloads section
Methyl b12 myth miracle or masterpiece

IN this info he talks about how often kids that respond to b12 actually show high b12 in the blood, and he says that it is probably that they can't use it, and it just builds up. My sons result was 951 and I have been told that high is over 900.

My son has had many test over the time, and really I struggle to make heads or tails of it, his b6 is way over the reference range in his blood. Again I believe he cannot use it, or at least active it in to a useable form.

I had his blood histamine tested a while ago, and it was extrememly low, so according to the pfieffer treatment plan, he is an overmethylator, but Dr Neubrander says that maybe the over and under methylator situation is too simple, that really that for most kids if there is a methylation issue, then they should try the 5 week experament he talks about.

My son has only had three of the biological markers shown in Jill James research tested, and all 3 were more in the "autistic" range than in the range that the "control" group has, so I figured that trying to get these more into the normal could not hurt. My dr here was happy for me to try.

I did write to Dr N back in May about Tourettes and mb12 and I got much the same answer as you, that he has not had much expreience with it, and that if you were to try, then start low, maybe 25% of the normal dose, and slowly up it.

I tried sublingual as the needle thing was going to be a challenge, and my kid is already soooo good with all this stuff, and i did not want to rock the boat. I figured that if I see any improvment in the 5 weeks that I will know that mb12 helps along with all the other stuff, and then I will cross the needle vs sublingual thing later. Right now, things are going well, and well just see as time goes on.

I have posted most of my kids results elsewhere, but just to reafirm, he has mercury toxcicity as per heavy metal challenge test, low histamine, gut dysbiosis, poor stomach acid and hence low amino acids accross the board, fatty acid deficiencies. He used to have adhd, but not anymore, this has defenitiely corrected itself with supplements. The only thing left is his tics, which are definitely mild now, and sometimes not even there, but they still wax and wane a bit. He is a great kid, happy and well balanced. This was not always the case, on medication (orap) he was depressed, 20 kg overweight and miserable.

Testing of nutritional imbalances was the best thing we ever did, and supplementing has made all the difference. Things still seesaw for us, sometimes I think we get one thing in balance and it sends another one off, so we still have a ways to go, but....its a work in progress...

Good luck with your dr next week.

#15 Andy

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 09:05 AM

Kim you are so right about the DAN doctors not having that much experience with the kids labed TS. I stayed away from them years ago for I only saw their label but when I compared my son's medical charts to a child with the label of ASD they were very similar. This led me to the conclusion that we were both dealing with a heavy metal issue and damage from it with the degree of damage being different. What is scary is the research that is showing that heavy metal toxics can be passed down from generation to generation. I will not be surprise that in the future all parents to be will be recommended to detox as part of a prenatal procedure. As far as the doctors not having experience with other then ASD, I have noticed that some DAN doctors are now taking on not only TS kids but also ADD as well. The baseline data for our kids is not there yet but I guess one could go by the medical tests to judge for themselves how long the treatments should be. We ourselves have decided to stop the DMPS IV at 6. Next week will be my son's 5th treatment. The DMSA is now in the second month, first week and we do not see going past 6 months with that and depending upon test results maybe a lot less. We will continue the TD Glutathione for a while but as I stated we are hoping to use NDF-plus with TTFD,when my kid is ready to swallow pills, along with organic veg shakes as a long time solution/prevention measure. I am still amazed at the progress we have made and find it a sin that elements of the press go out of their way pushing slanderous misinformation. The results speak for themselves and their are plenty of kids out there as proof.




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