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blood brain barrier--does it close/ no "waning"


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8 replies to this topic

#1 eljomom

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:05 PM

I am wondering about the blood brain barrier.....once it is "breeched" does it close back up again? How?
Also, if tics started suddenly and strong, and it's been 5 months, why is there no "back to normal" after "exacerbation?" Or is it now just chronic pandas. Lyme negative (W. blot and Igenix), no strep, no myco p....so wondering....


#2 eljomom

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:07 PM

what can close the BBB? and are there only problems when it's "open"? sorry, but very confused.

#3 trademein

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:53 PM

what can close the BBB? and are there only problems when it's "open"? sorry, but very confused.

I'm with you on this. Good question. We have no infection so why not back to normal? My DD9 has tics and some seperation anxiety still.
Trademein

#4 tampicc

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 09:01 PM

Interesting question to me, b/c we are neg for strep and myco and lyme ELISA right now (though haven't done better lyme testing yet). Perhaps it is anti-inflammatory properties of ibuprofen and abx that keep it closed. I've also seen posted that high-dose IVIG is very anti-inflammatory in a lasting way, though I'm not an expert on this.

#5 mom love

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 03:12 AM

I do believe the BBB can open and close. My daughter had complete remissions at times over the years. I have been learning about the BBB and need more time to study it. Most infection triggered neurological disorders are all about the BBB, obviously. Bacteria aren't supposed to be able to get in there. Although there are certain pathways that aren't as protected. And it seems to be well documented that viruses can get through the BBB as well as lyme.

It all has much to do about inflammation opening the BBB

http://en.wikipedia....d-brain_barrier


Pathophysiology
The blood-brain barrier acts very effectively to protect the brain from many common bacterial infections. Thus, infections of the brain are very rare. However, since antibodies and antibiotics are too large to cross the blood-brain barrier, infections of the brain that do occur are often very serious and difficult to treat. However, the blood-brain barrier becomes more permeable during inflammation, meaning that some antibiotics can get across. Viruses easily bypass the blood-brain barrier by attaching themselves to circulating immune cells.

An exception to the bacterial exclusion are the diseases caused by spirochetes, such as Borrelia, which causes Lyme disease, and Treponema pallidum, which causes syphilis. These harmful bacteria seem to breach the blood-brain barrier by physically tunneling through the blood vessel walls.


IMHO I think that all the shots our kids receive from birth with all the viruses and bacteria and toxins like thimerisol and aluminum to name only a couple, can contribute to the disruption of the BBB and dysregulation of the immune system.

I have read that the BBB acts like a sentry, triggering immune response to a pathogen. Brain protection AND immune system functioning.

I also want to research more about when the BBB is open, likely due to inflammation, drugs like antibiotics actually get through more easily aiding in the eradication of the pathogen. It makes me want to find out more about the timing of antibiotics and steroids for those who use them.

#6 mom love

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 03:19 AM

what can close the BBB? and are there only problems when it's "open"? sorry, but very confused.



I know most here hope and pray that there is not permanant damage to the brain from all of this. I think there is so much we do not know about how the brain functions and recovers. My hope is that by eradicating pathogens, reducing inflammation from allergies, whether environmental or food, and eliminating infection, the inflammation can end and the brain can heal.

#7 kimballot

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 07:06 AM

I am wondering about the blood brain barrier.....once it is "breeched" does it close back up again? How?
Also, if tics started suddenly and strong, and it's been 5 months, why is there no "back to normal" after "exacerbation?" Or is it now just chronic pandas. Lyme negative (W. blot and Igenix), no strep, no myco p....so wondering....

I don't think anyone has answers to this... but I would think if your child has PANDAS and you have eliminated all of the underlying infections, then I would think that the inflammation could be your key. Have you tried anti inflammatories like quercetin? I think the folks on this board could help with inflammation-reducing diets and such. Also, allergies are very inflammatory and need to be addressed head on.

Also -Have you done a steroid burst? Steroids shut down the immune system temporarily - In many cases the symptoms return once the steroids are finished because the child still has an underlying infection, but in some cases families report long term relief with properly-timed steroids.

Parent of teenager with PANS from young age. Mild primary immune deficiency. Chronic sinusitis. Possible bartonella,  Antibiotics.  IVIG. History of severe exacerbations.  Continues to show improvement. There is hope for our children.  Let's work together for early identification and treatment!


#8 eljomom

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 03:35 PM

We have not gotten an official diagnosis yet. So until then, I'm afraid to try steroids if this may just be Tourette's/ocd/ADHD/sep. anx., as i have read that steroids are bad news in that case. Not sure why, but scared. Dr. L was "not convinced" pandas based on Cam K being 168---wants to see antineuronals.

#9 momofgirls

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 10:29 PM

Hmmm have you received a copy of your igenex test results? Any lyme specific bands show up as positive or IND? I ask because lyme testing is tricky and many factors can impact the test ie...circulating immune complexes. Also some doctors treat elevated IgG myco p titers as active infection and do not assume it is a past infection. Something about myco p going chronic and the igm no longer elevates, only elevated igg. There is some interesting stuff on myco p and auto immunity. So if it were me I would post your igenex results on the lyme forum and double check the myco p titer to make sure neither igg not igm were elevated.

I am wondering about the blood brain barrier.....once it is "breeched" does it close back up again? How?
Also, if tics started suddenly and strong, and it's been 5 months, why is there no "back to normal" after "exacerbation?" Or is it now just chronic pandas. Lyme negative (W. blot and Igenix), no strep, no myco p....so wondering....






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