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Have you heard of the "Marshall Protocol"


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17 replies to this topic

#1 juliafaith

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 02:21 PM

One lyme dr. that I am considering taking my ds to follows this protocol. Anyone know about this?

Thank you.

Ds16: 5/10-PANS; 10/10 -lyme; Babesia [parasite]; Mico. & chlamydia pneu.; mold; T&A done; GcMAF done 12/13;  1st Strep Pos. 2/14.
Current treatment-    Maintenance:  Vit. D; Detox [Chia seeds];  probiotic;  Kidney detox drink-electrolytes/'M' Water/Galactose   PANS Support: (Myco Potent Immune Complex; Biocidin (anti-bacterial); Kidney tincture.
Prescriptions/Treatments:  thyroid; Desmopressin [Urinary tract support]; neurofeedback (weekly) Psychologist (bi-weekly);  hydroxyzine (antihistamine-sleep during flair); Exercise (finally!)<p> 



#2 matis_mom

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 04:42 PM

One lyme dr. that I am considering taking my ds to follows this protocol. Anyone know about this?

Thank you.

I was just going to ask about it too. I've read many good reports about it, and I was trying to find a doc in my area (Northern VA). Where do you live?
Supposedly, too much vitamin D, or rather one of it's byproducts, messes up your immune system and makes it unable to fight cell-wall deficient bacteria. Lyme can switch from the spirochete form to the cell-wall deficient form, and when it does so it's very hard to get at it with antibiotics. So, the thinking goes that when you follow the Marshall Protocol (which sounds pretty intense), your body is better able to fight Lyme, and any other cell-wall deficient bacteria. It is very interesting, and hard to do as it sounds, it seems to work wonders for those with "autoimmune" diseases, which, if I understand correctly, according to Dr. Marshall are not true "autoimmune" problems, but rather an undetected infection by cell-wall deficient bacteria. That's what I've gathered in my late-night internet searches, and reading "Top Ten Lyme Treatments", so it's probably not all that scientific and acurate, so do your homework before you embark! It is supposed to take some time to see the benefits of it (we are talking over a year), but the guy who wrote "Top Ten Lyme Disease Treatments" swears by it, and he said he did it, but not 100% of the time. He took breaks in between, which is not "kosher", but it was the only way he would have been able to do it. One of he big perks of it is that you can take a much smaller dose of antibiotics and get a whole lot more punch out of it.

It's something I'm definitely going to ask our LLMD at the next appointment. Winter is coming so I guess we could try it December thru March or something like that.

#3 matis_mom

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 04:48 PM


One lyme dr. that I am considering taking my ds to follows this protocol. Anyone know about this?

Thank you.

I was just going to ask about it too. I've read many good reports about it, and I was trying to find a doc in my area (Northern VA). Where do you live?
Supposedly, too much vitamin D, or rather one of it's byproducts, messes up your immune system and makes it unable to fight cell-wall deficient bacteria. Lyme can switch from the spirochete form to the cell-wall deficient form, and when it does so it's very hard to get at it with antibiotics. So, the thinking goes that when you follow the Marshall Protocol (which sounds pretty intense), your body is better able to fight Lyme, and any other cell-wall deficient bacteria. It is very interesting, and hard to do as it sounds, it seems to work wonders for those with "autoimmune" diseases, which, if I understand correctly, according to Dr. Marshall are not true "autoimmune" problems, but rather an undetected infection by cell-wall deficient bacteria. That's what I've gathered in my late-night internet searches, and reading "Top Ten Lyme Treatments", so it's probably not all that scientific and acurate, so do your homework before you embark! It is supposed to take some time to see the benefits of it (we are talking over a year), but the guy who wrote "Top Ten Lyme Disease Treatments" swears by it, and he said he did it, but not 100% of the time. He took breaks in between, which is not "kosher", but it was the only way he would have been able to do it. One of he big perks of it is that you can take a much smaller dose of antibiotics and get a whole lot more punch out of it.

It's something I'm definitely going to ask our LLMD at the next appointment. Winter is coming so I guess we could try it December thru March or something like that.

I forgot to say, if you do a google search you will find some sites that call it a scam. So, do your homework and proceed with caution. Apparently thousands of people have been helped by it and there is a forum where they share their stories. I can't imagine anyone taking the trouble to set up a fake forum with thousands of entries to support a scam... but you never know!

#4 NewBeginnings

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 04:54 PM

I know there are some people over on lymenet that have experience with it. You may want to look around over there to get additional opinions.

#5 keithandelizabeth

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 05:16 PM

Wow Isabel, you have really done some great research in such a short period of time!!

I have also looked at the Marshall Protocol and it seems so fascinating when you get to their website and read their testimonials, but I have not heard of anyone on the lymenet forum having such great success. Who knows though because these forums can be so biased and you are often dealing with people who are still sick because the healthy people have gone on to live life!

Anyway, our LLMD also told us to NOT supplement with Vitamin D. He did not give us the great explanation that you gave us though. He did say that most lyme sufferers have low vitamin D and that the body usually rectifies itself once the chronic infection is gone.

#6 pacificmama

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 05:36 PM

I would really do your homework on this, and use extreme caution. I looked at it some time ago, and read the criticisms (for which there are many). If you search lymenet you will see some contentious discussions, and I don't think there are the successes to back it up (despite what Marhsall web site says). The criticisms I have read refuting the Marshall theory make more sense to me. (google "Marhall protocol criticism" or something like that).

Interesting that Elizabeth's llmd says to not supplement d. Our llmd advices us specifically to supplement d because my daughter tests low (like many lyme patients).

Since we currently don't vaccinate or do flu shots, my personal strategy is to use vit d, (along with other supps, diet, sleep) to boost immune system in hopes of keeping our family healthy as possible. I guess there are opinions to the contrary, but it just doesn't seem right to me to have the body be in a state of deficient d.

#7 nancyd

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 10:41 AM

See the link to the conference notes that SF Mom just posted. One of the speakers addressed both vitamin D and Marshall.

I would really do your homework on this, and use extreme caution. I looked at it some time ago, and read the criticisms (for which there are many). If you search lymenet you will see some contentious discussions, and I don't think there are the successes to back it up (despite what Marhsall web site says). The criticisms I have read refuting the Marshall theory make more sense to me. (google "Marhall protocol criticism" or something like that).

Interesting that Elizabeth's llmd says to not supplement d. Our llmd advices us specifically to supplement d because my daughter tests low (like many lyme patients).

Since we currently don't vaccinate or do flu shots, my personal strategy is to use vit d, (along with other supps, diet, sleep) to boost immune system in hopes of keeping our family healthy as possible. I guess there are opinions to the contrary, but it just doesn't seem right to me to have the body be in a state of deficient d.



#8 matis_mom

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 06:06 PM

See the link to the conference notes that SF Mom just posted. One of the speakers addressed both vitamin D and Marshall.

OK, so here is the quote from that article... Thank goodness! We are already gluten free/diary free. If I had to take out eggs and other stuff, I don't know what we would eat!

Dr. Klinghardt on Vitamin D and Lyme Disease

ALS, MS, cancers, etc. are all vitamin D deficient states. Lyme spirochetes utilize vitamin D3 to stimulate their own growth. It helps the spirochetes to multiply much faster.

Sarcoidosis is a condition of lumps in the lymphatic tissue and lungs. It is often caused by Lyme disease.

Dr. Marshall is not an MD or a chemist. Dr. Klinghardt has not seen one improvement on the Marshall Protocol except in a sarcoid patient. It has not been helpful for pure Lyme cases.
If a person is vitamin D deficient and being treated for Lyme, it seems to take longer for them to recover. When you give vitamin D and Lyme treatment together, the patient does far better.

Lyme disease multiplies every 22-36 days. With Vitamin D, that process may be every 19 days. The organisms are most vulnerable to treatment when they are multiplying.


The question then would be, how do you know if you have sarcoidosis??? What are the symptoms? Are swollen lymph nodes something to worry about? My tonsils will just not go down no matter what. I literally feel like I always have a lump in my throat.

#9 juliafaith

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 12:14 PM

Thank you for all the information. The article was very interesting as I am trying to get an appt. with Dr. Klinghardt. Just set up appt. to speak with his office manager in 2 weeks so it could be a long process. His is local so that helps. If necessary, may need to go to one of his interns that also have practices now.

Best wishes on healing.

Ds16: 5/10-PANS; 10/10 -lyme; Babesia [parasite]; Mico. & chlamydia pneu.; mold; T&A done; GcMAF done 12/13;  1st Strep Pos. 2/14.
Current treatment-    Maintenance:  Vit. D; Detox [Chia seeds];  probiotic;  Kidney detox drink-electrolytes/'M' Water/Galactose   PANS Support: (Myco Potent Immune Complex; Biocidin (anti-bacterial); Kidney tincture.
Prescriptions/Treatments:  thyroid; Desmopressin [Urinary tract support]; neurofeedback (weekly) Psychologist (bi-weekly);  hydroxyzine (antihistamine-sleep during flair); Exercise (finally!)<p> 


#10 sptcmom

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 03:20 PM

Is it possible to actually have our children examined by this Marshall guy? I mean each child needs a customized protocol. If he's not in actual medical practice I would be very vary of him in my humble opinion. I just can't accept it on blind faith from my LLMD. I posted about a similar issue Im having about Dr Klinghardt not being available for phone consults or anything. That is very anxiety provoking to me. Why the secerecy and non reacheability? maybe Im being oversensitive. Its just my comfort level at this point. I mean Dr K's protocol explained by Dr K is amazing and Dr T's, Dr J's theories being explained by the guys themselves is amazing. There are numerous medical geniuses and they are all happy to return emails- including nobel prize winners and globe trotting protocol originators are ALL open to fellow medicos having questions but Dr Kllinghardt is impossible to reach from what I heard so far. His registered office in WA state didn't even bother to return my call and one of his trainees ( a lyme mom) I met during my ART testing here in NJ mentioned she is in email touch with him but he doesn't take consults. I am being repetetive and am sorry but its frustrating the heck outta me.
So no Marshall or any other protocol for my child until I can talk ot the guy himself.

#11 tpotter

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 06:37 AM

Interesting about sarcoidosis. My hairdresser said she was just diagnosed with it, and I'm going to go over there today just to tell her about the possible Lyme connection.

#12 pacificmama

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 07:33 AM

Is it possible to actually have our children examined by this Marshall guy? I mean each child needs a customized protocol. If he's not in actual medical practice I would be very vary of him in my humble opinion. I just can't accept it on blind faith from my LLMD. I posted about a similar issue Im having about Dr Klinghardt not being available for phone consults or anything. That is very anxiety provoking to me. Why the secerecy and non reacheability? maybe Im being oversensitive. Its just my comfort level at this point. I mean Dr K's protocol explained by Dr K is amazing and Dr T's, Dr J's theories being explained by the guys themselves is amazing. There are numerous medical geniuses and they are all happy to return emails- including nobel prize winners and globe trotting protocol originators are ALL open to fellow medicos having questions but Dr Kllinghardt is impossible to reach from what I heard so far. His registered office in WA state didn't even bother to return my call and one of his trainees ( a lyme mom) I met during my ART testing here in NJ mentioned she is in email touch with him but he doesn't take consults. I am being repetetive and am sorry but its frustrating the heck outta me.
So no Marshall or any other protocol for my child until I can talk ot the guy himself.


Hi,
As to Marshall examing your child, the answer would be "no". That's because he isn't even a doctor! As I posted before, there is not much evidence that this works for lyme. And in my opinion, it's dangerous.

As to Klinghardt, I don't know anything about any secrecy. He has an extensive web site, has published tons of articles. There are various videos out there about his presentations. His medical practice is in Seattle. He is very in demand with his time, and I would imagine extremely busy. I just don't see someone this busy being able to return phone calls/emails to people who are not his patients. I'm not at all advocating for him or his protocol -- just giving my opinion about what I know of him. I have read quite a bit, and have seen some of his presentations, and I think he has a lot of valuable insight about these diseases. I've never tried to reach him, or follow his advice to the letter. But like most people probably, I pick and choose from various sources according to my comfort level, pocketbook, and what seems right for us.

good luck.
Mary

#13 smartyjones

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 09:39 AM

Hi,
As to Marshall examing your child, the answer would be "no". That's because he isn't even a doctor! As I posted before, there is not much evidence that this works for lyme. And in my opinion, it's dangerous.



pacificmama -- you think the protocol itself is dangerous? or is it that it doesn't properly address the lyme bacteria and that's what you see is dangerous?

#14 sptcmom

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 02:38 PM


Is it possible to actually have our children examined by this Marshall guy? I mean each child needs a customized protocol. If he's not in actual medical practice I would be very vary of him in my humble opinion. I just can't accept it on blind faith from my LLMD. I posted about a similar issue Im having about Dr Klinghardt not being available for phone consults or anything. That is very anxiety provoking to me. Why the secerecy and non reacheability? maybe Im being oversensitive. Its just my comfort level at this point. I mean Dr K's protocol explained by Dr K is amazing and Dr T's, Dr J's theories being explained by the guys themselves is amazing. There are numerous medical geniuses and they are all happy to return emails- including nobel prize winners and globe trotting protocol originators are ALL open to fellow medicos having questions but Dr Kllinghardt is impossible to reach from what I heard so far. His registered office in WA state didn't even bother to return my call and one of his trainees ( a lyme mom) I met during my ART testing here in NJ mentioned she is in email touch with him but he doesn't take consults. I am being repetetive and am sorry but its frustrating the heck outta me.
So no Marshall or any other protocol for my child until I can talk ot the guy himself.


Hi,
As to Marshall examing your child, the answer would be "no". That's because he isn't even a doctor! As I posted before, there is not much evidence that this works for lyme. And in my opinion, it's dangerous.

As to Klinghardt, I don't know anything about any secrecy. He has an extensive web site, has published tons of articles. There are various videos out there about his presentations. His medical practice is in Seattle. He is very in demand with his time, and I would imagine extremely busy. I just don't see someone this busy being able to return phone calls/emails to people who are not his patients. I'm not at all advocating for him or his protocol -- just giving my opinion about what I know of him. I have read quite a bit, and have seen some of his presentations, and I think he has a lot of valuable insight about these diseases. I've never tried to reach him, or follow his advice to the letter. But like most people probably, I pick and choose from various sources according to my comfort level, pocketbook, and what seems right for us.

good luck.
Mary

Thanks Mary. I appreciate your point of view, always have.
So yes, Dr Klinghardt is ultra super insane busy. How? the patients hes busy with mustve managed to contact him in some way shape or form. I've been to all his websites, even Dr Mercola's websites, and so many other areas on the web including his Kirkland WA clinic. Ive seen all the commercialization of his teachings, his DVDs etc.Wonderful testimonials from his patients and I love some of his concoctions and portions for lyme. BUT how the heck do I get in though? The clinic hasn't returned a single phonecall.. I mean from a mdical professional and I even had my nurse manager call twice from the clinic to make it super official but still no call backs. I am blown away at how blase the staff's attitude is. Even Dr Corson has courtesy enough to call me back in a couple days. Shes crazy busy too.
I do suspect this current ART clincian Im seeing has something up her sleeve for not allowing me access to Dr K's email she claims she has. Oh well.

Edited by sptcmom, 11 October 2010 - 02:41 PM.


#15 pacificmama

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 07:15 PM

pacificmama -- you think the protocol itself is dangerous? or is it that it doesn't properly address the lyme bacteria and that's what you see is dangerous?


Well, probably both. He's a phD electrical engineer -- not a medical doctor or researcher. My gut instinct, plus the numerous critiques I have read, say that intentionally depriving yourself of vit d is not good. (among other critiques of his plan). Additionally, using this plan takes one away from using other means to combat these VERY COMPLICATED tbi diseases. I would just rather take the word of a doctor who spends all day, every day, treating or researching in the specific area of lyme and other tbi's.




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