Methylfolate, worse, what to do? urgent please

[Wombat140]

Hello. OK so you know me, if you don't then it's about this thread http://latitudes.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=23917 .
I've been on methylfolate for a bit over a week - started at 67mcg, then went up to 133mcg a few days ago. I started 1000mcg of hydroxy-B12 at the same time. I have the MTHFR mutation (albeit only a +/-), and my compulsions got noticeably worse straight after taking a standard folic acid supplement, so by all the laws this should work.

Just a few days after starting it, I started an almost new compulsion that involves hitting my head. (I mean it existed before but only rarely and about one single thing now it's all over everything.) Not good. Before you start telling me not to do this - I know.

Can this possibly be the methylfolate or the hydroxy-B12? Would it be a good idea to stop them for a day or a few days (if so, which - is one day enough or should it be more?) and see if it improves? I'm scared to do that because the rule with my symptoms for the last few months seems to be, they get worse when I start anything, and they get worse when I stop anything, too.

Help please.
Wombat140

Edited September 9, 2015 by Wombat140

[jan251]

Double check this, but if I recall, overdoing the methyl b12 can be undone with niacin b3 (which can also be overdone, so if you try niacin, just a fraction of a capsule).

 

I don't know more, but I totally understand how it goes when adding something makes things worse and then stopping it makes things worse.

 

In this case, I would stop it until you can figure out what to do (e.g. lower dosing).

Edited September 9, 2015 by jan251

[pr40]

"Double check this, but if I recall, overdoing the methyl b12 can be undone with niacin b3."

want to second jan251

 

it seems you overdid it

you must have other mutations

doing complete 23andMe might give you some answers

try taking folate and b12 only once a week

[LNN]

Niacin is the "antidote" to too much methylfolate. However, niacin can cause a "flush" - a rapid dilation of the small capillaries that causes your skin to turn red, you feel hot and itching (due to a release of histamine). It's harmless and passes in about 20 min, but very uncomfortable. So I use niacinamide instead - it doesn't cause a flush. But you don't want to take too much - maybe 50-100mg in cases where you feel really "wrong" shortly after taking what you think is too high a dose of methylfolate. If it's been hours or more since your last dose of methylfolate, the niacinamide will be less helpful.

 

I'd stop the methylfolate and hydroxyB12 for 3-5 days and see how you feel. Then maybe go back to 67mcg daily for 2-3 weeks. If you can, split the hydroxyB12 and only take half - tho even at 1000mcg, you're probably only absorbing about 10% if taken sublingually. Less if taken orally into the stomach.

 

Don't get discouraged. My DD only needs 67mcg every other day. Sounds crazy that such a small dose would have any effect at all. But for her, it's the difference between level headed emotions and feeling bipolar. No methylfolate at all and she's bipolar. More than 67mcg every other day and she's bipolar. This is her sweet spot. I don't pretend to understand it. But I know enough to respect that that's what her body says it needs. I've regretted it when I've deviated from this dose.

 

Be prepared for a few months of ups and downs as you find your own sweet spot. You don't get to find out where that spot is without going over and under as you zero in. It's like playing a game of Battleship. Trial and error until you get the results you need. The good news is that you did react. The other good news is that you didn't start out with an even higher dose tablet. You have the liquid and can get pretty finite with your dosing. So that's a positive. Try one drop daily. Or one drop every other day. Or every third day. You'll need to experiment. Take a 50-100mg niacinamide (or split a capsule if this proves too much) - on days where you feel you may have let too much methylfolate build up.

 

The goal is to feel better but as Pr40 says, there are other snps to address too. So remember that the methylfolate/hydroxyB12 is just the first step. It alone won't make all your symptoms go away. But they should help. Just be methodical in your dosing and don't rush it. Not everyone needs large doses.

[Wombat140]

Few months of "ups and downs" = permanent brain damage under these circumstances, surely? Oh well... nothing much I can do about it, I suppose!

 

Forgot to say I did try niacinamide (50mg), didn't seem to make any difference. Yes, I have HAD the full 23andMe done (read my sig). According to that, I probably am about as much of an overmethylator as they come, and I'm taking *hydroxy*B12, not methylB12 at all, but there's no alternative to the methylfolate. Thanks very much LLM for the confirmation that stopping it for 3-5 days is a good thing to do. (I actually did start on 1000mcg of B12, but increased it after a few days simply because I realised I hadn't meant to do that. I'll stick to that in future!) I'm stopping it right now - today in fact because I delayed taking my morning dose until I heard back.

 

Just be methodical in your dosing and don't rush it. Not everyone needs large doses.

I was being TOO methodical, in a way; I was determined not to go switching my dose back and forth all the time just because I was having a random bad day! In future, I have to remember to be methodical about going DOWN when indicated, too...

 

Thanks once again for the replies everyone. I suppose I just wanted confirmation that chopping and changing like this is indeed the right thing to do. Some things you're supposed to hang on like grim death and wait to see if it gets better over time; but then B vitamins are fast, thank God.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Wombat140

[Wombat140]

(N.B. Please have a look at the thread linked at the top of this one, or at my sig, before you answer so you know what the situation actually is :-) )

 

I've tried yet again this time at a QUARTER of the supposed minimum daily starting level of 67mcg, i.e. 17mcg methylfolate and 250mcg hydroxyB12, taken every other day. After four days (two doses) of this, the situation seems to be that I'm getting a lot more emotional about things on the days I've taken it, but the OCD symptoms are no better. Terrible things keep happening.

 

I suppose it's possible that I already am getting enough methylfolate, despite my mutation, since I eat a lot of whole grains and, since giving up animal products for the CBS thing, a lot of nuts, and I've heard that the folic acid in food is in the form of methylfolate. (Is that true?)

 

Do you think it would make sense to give up on that for the time being and try the niacin, Vit D etc. (for the COMT and MAO mutations)?